Posted by Karla/OR on 11/30/12 7:08pm
Msg #445236
Continuation of my post #445084 . . .
@ Susan~ thank you for your comments - especially regarding taking docs to a print shop to have them faxed. How much privacy of your docs do you have then! Zero!
@ Donna and Linda~ Yes indeed my husband has a background check!!! No problem there. No, I do not make a habit of mentioning to the SS's or lenders that I am married and (surprise) live in the same household - and quite potentially he or any other hubby, roommate, or partner out there in your homes can at any moment eyeball the docs and proprietary info on them. Maybe you keep your docs locked up? Maybe you a have separate computer that only you can view and lock it when you are done? If NOT, guess what, you are in the same vulnerable position to have someone in your household view the docs.
The SS's I work with have never quizzed me on who lives in my household and who has access to the docs! I seriously doubt any one gets questioned like that. So apparently the SS's/Lenders aren't as concerned about this as you are! They hired me based on trust with their docs.
JMO of course.
| Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/30/12 7:36pm
Msg #445240
Hear, Hear! n/m
| Reply by Donna McDaniel on 11/30/12 9:06pm
Msg #445242
hmmm...WWPD. n/m
| Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/30/12 9:17pm
Msg #445243
WWPD? n/m
| Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/30/12 10:13pm
Msg #445249
Anyone? WWPD? n/m
| Reply by Cam/CA on 11/30/12 10:22pm
Msg #445251
Re: It means "What would Paul do" n/m
| Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/30/12 10:45pm
Msg #445254
Paul who, and why ask? n/m
| Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/30/12 10:53pm
Msg #445255
Re: Paul who, and why ask?
Paul who?
PAW-the guy we all looked to for answers.. Have you forgotten him already?
| Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/30/12 11:37pm
Msg #445260
Not at all forgotten. Why, is the real question. To my mind,
Karla's position is solid, and I've discussed my agreement in another post.
PAW's mind on this particular issue? Whatever it may have been, pray, who can presume to know? I rather suspect he would agree with Karla's professional decisions, and my reasoned concurrence. JMHO.
| Reply by Karla/OR on 12/1/12 3:18am
Msg #445266
Appreciate your vote of confidence Susan!! n/m
| Reply by Cam/CA on 11/30/12 10:55pm
Msg #445257
Re: Paul Williamson n/m
| Reply by BrendaTx on 12/1/12 7:18am
Msg #445270
WWPD? Not having read the previous thread, I thought that meant that Paul would be unimpressed at the latest trend on this board to dig hard into every post to find fault.
As far as husband taking docs to be faxed, Karla, it was a practical solution, but when you post on a forum, it will receive a look through "the sky is falling and there are crooks everywhere" lens. I think that in a perfect world, husbands would not have to fax back documents, but if the lender wants a perfect world, fly the borrowers out to where they are and sign the docs there.
I confess: My son has not had a background check and he has dropped off documents at Fedex for me 50-60 times.
Karla....what you did wrong is to post this. Just be careful in the future to post only quotes from your notary handbook or expect the same results.
| Reply by PJM/MI on 12/1/12 7:56am
Msg #445272
Agree with Brenda/nm n/m
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/1/12 8:33am
Msg #445274
Although I can understand what you're saying, Brenda
I have to disagree to a degree.
"I confess: My son has not had a background check and he has dropped off documents at Fedex for me 50-60 times." Yes - and those docs were sealed, were they not? No borrower info open and available.
This is not the case here. OP gave unsealed docs to someone else unapproved by the company to take to a remote location and fax away. Not to mention the fact that the open docs were out of her control. Now, had she said she herself took the package to her husband's place of employment and faxed from there, it would not have been so bad. But she didn't - she relinquished the borrowers' closing docs to someone outside the closing....and that is what I questioned.
You may be tired of the fault-finding - I'm concerned about the number of errors in judgment I'm seeing posted repeatedly here. And the ensuing "there there it will be fine, let it go" responses. You don't like the constant questions of "what if?" - the "what if's" are what keep our attention on detail. Avoiding "what ifs" is vital to this business.
I'll refer you all back to the recent post where someone had a daughter drop packages for her - and one was dropped with the wrong carrier. ??
To the OP - yes I have a husband - I trust him 100% - but yes, my docs and my business are all separate and he does not see any of it. He's dropped a package or two off for me from time to time - sealed. If I needed to access another fax, it would be on me to get to it and I would not have given docs to him to do - no matter HOW busy I was or how incovenient it was for me.
This is all JMHO and MY business and professional practice - I don't mean to insult anyone or antagonize anyone and I apologize if anything wa taken as such.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 12/1/12 10:31am
Msg #445278
Privacy/Security is a goal to strive for, but...
1-Hugh, as usual, says it better than I. I agree that we should do all that we can to ensure the best security possible.
2 -In this case, if Karla is truly at fault for getting her husband to fax off documents to get the job done, I feel that
(a) every member in one's office, home, work place, vehicle, or otherwise--anywhere where emails about signings are reviewed or answered, or where documents are reviewed or handled must be background checked and
(b) disclosed for every single transaction we handled.
3 - Signing agents should also remember that there is no privacy on work computers at day jobs. To be perfectly secure, one should not take phone calls or read emails about signing work at a job...one must certainly not review a document package on a work computer -- even if using another email address.
At any time, an employer can look at anything on a computer or appliances that have used while at work including downloads, cached web pages, etc. One has zero privacy while working. Even if it is an evasion of privacy under one's state laws, employers can look at whatever is on a computer. I know more than one small business owner who has hidden cameras that see documents and audio in their offices that pick up phone conversations. I have been with them and watched their unsuspecting employees on IPads. (Yeah, I don't like it either, but it is a fact.)
Many employers (who also have sensitive information in their offices) put privacy programs on computers and record activities. That means all activities are available for their eyes.
There is a program on my work computer that literally checks for sensitive material. Birthdates, SS#, credit accounts, etc. It would blow up the IT guy's console if I looked at a loan package.
4- WWPD expanded - The Paul I knew might have let a trusted other go fax off documents when he could not, but he would have had a downloadable-from-his-website-PAW-disclosure-form to instantaneously distribute all the facts about the same to the right parties.
5- LindaH is correct that notaries should be aware of privacy and security and must be most respectful of it.
6 -Karla (I, any longtime reader of this forum) should know by now that every times he/she posts a microscope will be used to analyze the situation. Rebuttals are certainly warranted, but at some point, one realizes that he/she should share these types of situations with only close notary friends in private or be prepared for the responses.
7 - Fault finding - Part I - When JanetK, a teacher, finds fault and shares on this board, I find a moment to be taught. Her lessons are potent as she carefully picks her moments.
8 - Fault finding - Part II - I have learned from JanetK. My once overly active fault finder has a filter on it.
9 - Let us be realistic.
If we really want to be completely private and secure in our dealings at home, we should have a separate internet connection for our home offices that is not available to spouses or others. We must have a secure room to conduct our business that no one else can enter. No one may be able to use our computers...ever. We should have security firm and privacy management plan in place to secure our signing agent files for the issue of our untimely deaths so that no one can ever see what was on our computers, calendars, files, or notes.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 12/1/12 10:42am
Msg #445281
Final comment: Privacy/Security
My previous remarks are made with the consideration that Karla's husband to fax back documents...not the guy down the street that she does not know.
I still do not approve of sending documents to be printed at Kinko's, etc. In an emergency, one should get permission for doing so from the hiring entity and do all that he or she can in order to control the documents if pushed into a corner and having to use commercial resources for printing.
| Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/2/12 5:30am
Msg #445315
Mulled it over, agree with Linda
There's practicality, real-world life, and the very slippery slope. What always comes to my mind when these meaty debates crop up are the likely thousands of 'silent' members reading and forming opinions. Since human nature dictates that we gather info that supports our belief, and ignore info that negates it - I address that real possibility of our implied support of extrapolated 'ok-ness' rolling down that slippery slope.
I guess the real sentiment I wish I could express without typing it in words is this - sometimes, stuff happens, but it should stay in Vegas (in agreement w/Brenda on that). However, in deciding to support or deny support in writing on a public forum, I will have to deny support.
Agree, there are boatloads of things this community gets all up in arms about that is not worth the energy to consider, let alone debate. I just believe whole-heartedly that this is one very slick slope, and also believe it has the potential to be the very slope (protection of personal info) that REALLY ruins our day, one day.
| Reply by HisHughness on 12/1/12 9:26am
Msg #445275
My take
I realize that certain security precautions are imposed upon signing agents. At the same time, I also realize that lenders, title companies and signing services are fully aware of the environment into which they are sending documents. They are aware of the slim profit margins by which we operate. They are aware that the vast majority of us operate out of our homes, often occupied by other unaffiliated persons. And they are aware that because of the financial imperatives of this business, time is often a luxury, and compromises must be made.
If lenders, title companies and signing services wish full compliance with the security provisions of all applicable laws, then they need to be prepared to pay at a level that will ensure we have the physical resources and time required to do so.
Until then, I'm going to run my business in a fashion that provides me a reasonable return on my investment and my time, based on the level of fees that lenders, title companies and signing services are prepared to pay.
| Reply by jnew on 12/1/12 9:55am
Msg #445277
Re: My take
I agree with HH. After all of the nits have been picked, it is your business and you should be allowed to use resources (husband) as you see fit.
| Reply by PegiT_MN on 12/1/12 11:54am
Msg #445287
Re: My take
I'm in total agreement with Hugh here. I would also like to add that some of you people on this board are just plain ridiculous with all the craziness you have shown in your comments to Karla over the past few days. Good grief, some of you act like you are Notary Signing Agent Gods sent here to Notary Rotary to pass judgement on anyone who doesn't run their business to your liking or follow your rules. Half of you don't even know what the rules are. And God forbid anyone post anything here you disagree with or don't understand because it is going to be picked to pieces like those big black birds do to a dead animal on the side of the road. I just read through some of these crazy posts this morning and for a minute I thought I was on some high school facebook or myspace page.
I get it that PAW was a very well respected member of Notary Rotary and a person that a lot of you looked up to and came to for guidance. It is sad that he has passed away and is no longer here to give you his knowledge and support, however, I do not believe he would be a bit impressed or in acceptance of all the horrible mean spirited posts I see on here everyday. It's everyday folks. Every freakin' day! If it's not Karla that's being scrutinized and practically beheaded for allowing her husband to fax docs back, it's the new notary who asked a question some of you people think is beneath you. And God forbid anyone come on this website and claim that they took a closing for under $XXX......OMG.......all hell is going to break loose for that.
It's Christmas. Can't we all be a little kinder to one another? Karla posts that she needs a cocktail.....obviously she had a bad day and needs someone to talk to......can't we just give her that support instead of finding fault in what she did that day? The new notary comes here to Notary Rotary and posts that he or she would like to know how to get started......can't we just help them out a little bit and not tell them to keep their day job? Someone posts that they accepted $XX for a signing.......do we really need to tell them to go work at Walmart?
So today is December 1st and I just want to say to everyone here at Notary Rotary, may you be blessed with a very prosperous and enjoyable month full of good holiday spirit, the love of your friends and family, and lots of good business coming your way.
I just needed to say that.....thank you for listening.
Your notary friend,
Peggy Taylor
| Reply by Shan/CA on 12/1/12 12:46pm
Msg #445292
Re: My take
Well said Ms. Peggy!
| Reply by Yoli/CA on 12/1/12 2:44pm
Msg #445297
Excellent, 10-star post, Peggy! Thank you. n/m
| Reply by Karla/OR on 12/1/12 3:14pm
Msg #445301
Appreciate your post Pegi. Thank you. n/m
| Reply by pdl/cali on 12/1/12 11:52pm
Msg #445310
Re: My take
Thanks pegit, Karla, have a cocktail and relax, you'll be fine.
| Reply by Pro Mobile Notary on 12/1/12 11:10am
Msg #445283
I have not seen anyone else comment on the inherent dangers of taking anything to a copy shop for copying or faxing.
All copy shops now have large digital copiers, scanners and fax machines. When they feed documents into those machines they are digitized and sent to a hard drive within the machine. After your documents are faxed, copies or scanned THE DOCUMENTS REMAIN ON THE MACHINE'S HARD DRIVE. I will give the copy shops the benefit of the doubt and say they would never do anything bad with those documents, but that is not where the problem lies.
After the lease of those leased machines is over the machines are returned to the leasing company. The leasing companies sells those machines in bulk and ship them to overseas buyers. According to a presentation I attended recently given by a security expert, the buyers of those machines are sometimes removing the hard drives, download the stored documents and search for information for the purpose of identity theft.
Some leasing companies (very few) offer special software to wipe the hard drive clean after the documents have been printed, faxed or scanned, but it costs an additional $500 and few copy shops spend that money because consumers do not know the difference and are not demanding it.
It is unfortunately that the overwhelming majority of people are not aware of this problem.
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/1/12 11:53am
Msg #445286
PMN's post reminds me of this horrendous SS I forget the name of ... it's in Prairie Village, KS ... which, in one of its many attempts to make more $$ for itself and pay the notary less, made some sort of deal with FedEx/Kinko, where the notary would pick up printed docs at their nearest FedEx. They implemented this bonehead idea nationwide ... it turned out to be such a mess for obvious reasons that they eventually dropped it ... but sometimes big breaches of security start at the top. And BTW, if TCs really cared about security (and who's kidding who) they'd instantly drop about half of these flea-bitten, thieving, scumbag SSs that operate a dog food business on the side that they willy nilly turn borrowers' info over to. Handing a few pages to a husband to fax is not even a blip on the radar. Just the other day I read where a TC got caught filling their outside dumpster with unshredded files containing their customers/clients personal info.
Also, I would have thought that by now most people realize that everything they copy/fax or have copied/faxed is permanently imbedded in a hard drive somewhere but there's nothing we can really do about it ... except on our own equipment. But maybe not...
| Reply by jba/fl on 12/1/12 11:58am
Msg #445288
"Also, I would have thought that by now most people realize that everything they copy/fax or have copied/faxed is permanently imbedded in a hard drive somewhere but there's nothing we can really do about it .."
Its been on the news, discussed here & everywhere - Perhaps even imprinted enough that those with young children are born with the knowledge now.
| Reply by Susan Fischer on 12/1/12 12:00pm
Msg #445289
Banks and other customer info-filled paper-generating
industries also lease machines. What assurances does anyone have that every one of those memories/hard drives are wiped clean? None.
I've sold/given away printers, fax machines, copiers - and fully admit I didn't scrub 'em. Never crossed my mind. As Brenda said, it's not a perfect world, and best practices are, well, best. I'd bet not one soul required Bernie Madeoff be background-checked, and if someone had? It would not have provided one ounce of protection against that thief.
If you take the "what ifs" to the enth degree, no information would ever be transmitted electronically in any situation. That said, we do the very best we can to meet our obligations and deadlines in the safest manner available.
I guess I'm saying that some wickets are stickier than others, and may be different for each of us. Jmho.
| Reply by Karla/OR on 12/1/12 2:54pm
Msg #445298
Thanks to those who posted in a positive and educational way. We take enough hits in our daily lives to know that we don't need to be slain by the know-it-alls of the world. I so respect notaries that share their experience here as this is how I and many others have grown through the years.
| Reply by HisHughness on 12/1/12 3:08pm
Msg #445299
***I so respect notaries that share their experience here as this is how I and many others have grown through the years.***
Actually, the primary reason I have grown through the years is too damn many cheeseburgers, cheeseburgers, cheeseburgers.
| Reply by Karla/OR on 12/1/12 3:13pm
Msg #445300
Me too Hugh! Love my burgers!!! Better than a steak, IMO!!!! n/m
| Reply by Yoli/CA on 12/1/12 3:18pm
Msg #445302
Don't forget the cheesecake! n/m
| Reply by Linda Juenger on 12/1/12 3:38pm
Msg #445303
And Chocolate n/m
| Reply by trnsa_IL on 12/2/12 10:53am
Msg #445321
And Chocolate Cheesecake!! :0) n/m
| Reply by Donna McDaniel on 12/1/12 4:21pm
Msg #445304
And who are these know-it-alls? Those who don't agree with you?
No matter how harsh it may seem, there are some who are trying look out for you.
Fortunately for me, my self worth does not come from Notary Rotary and trying to escalate and bully others into a pissing match. That is why I don't feel the need to post about every signing that doesn't go my way.
Don't get me wrong, I've learned alot from this site. I have also learned alot of what NOT to do and it wasn't an easy pill to swallow.
JMHO
| Reply by Karla/OR on 12/1/12 9:14pm
Msg #445308
"And who are these know-it-alls?" I think you know!
"Those who don't agree with you?" NOPE, I take all criticism to heart as long as it is not mean spirited.
"No matter how harsh it may seem, there are some who are trying look out for you." SOME being the key word here. (read above)
"Fortunately for me, my self worth does not come from Notary Rotary and trying to escalate and bully others into a pissing match." Hmmmm, could have fooled me (PM).
"That is why I don't feel the need to post about every signing that doesn't go my way." Speculation.
"Don't get me wrong, I've learned alot from this site. I have also learned alot of what NOT to do and it wasn't an easy pill to swallow."
What I learned a long time ago was to not be mean spirited, but yet you see it here on Not/Rot. This is not the first time it has been said here either. People get jumped on frequently. My basic point is we have every right to post on here but not the right to be mean and counter-productive about it.
Let's just agree to disagree but be kind to one another here on Not/Rot.
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/2/12 2:54pm
Msg #445336
<<Let's just agree to disagree but be kind to one another here on Not/Rot.>>
Would that it were that simple, Karla! Kindness and disagreement are often mutually exclusionary. One can politely disagree but often there's still some rancor left. Frequently, the second someone disagrees with somebody else, the swords come out. Unless a response is written in the nicest, sweetest, ultra professional way, there's always that nasty taste left that someone has been scolded, embarrassed, put down, humiliated, whatever ... when it can actually be a case of misinterpretation, misunderstanding, overdoing it a little, etc. And sometimes it's not; sometimes it's downright mean and insulting but yet it's hard to tell the difference in the written word ... I think over time, each poster's individual persona starts to come through and we can more readily interpret "what they really meant."
| Reply by Karla/OR on 12/2/12 3:41pm
Msg #445341
GOLDGIRL~ I do take criticism well (you have given me some good feedback here in the past), always have no matter what job I have worked at. I take what I want to use in my own business and go forward with it. The nastiness came via a PM so you wouldn't have witnessed it here on the forum.
| Reply by Donna McDaniel on 12/2/12 5:24pm
Msg #445345
Feel free to post it.
I know it is harsh, I was trying not to humiliate you here. Diplomacy is not my strong suit. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
| Reply by jba/fl on 12/2/12 10:55pm
Msg #445362
So, then, how did Cheryl? n/m
| Reply by Karla/OR on 12/3/12 3:21am
Msg #445370
How did Cheryl . . . what? n/m
| Reply by BobtheElder on 12/3/12 6:29pm
Msg #445418
Not sure what started all this, but I do, in fact have a separate, personal computer and a locking file cabinet and a locking briefcase to store docs in.... always have had.
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