Posted by Linda Juenger on 11/14/12 6:16pm
Msg #443423

Disaster Area Certification form

Lots of issues with it. Which disaster??? Sandy, Katrina, Joplin, KY, TN. All of these areas and more have had disasters. Had a tornado come through our area 2 yrs ago. I "ass"ume Sandy, but you know what happens when you assume something.

Borrowers are to sign Certifiying that the property has not been affected by the disaster (what, which disaster).

NOTARY (yes all caps). By signing and notarizing this disclosure, you are certifying that you closed the borrower's loan in their home and no damage due to any recent disaster was readily noted.

Notary signature___________________-

Affix Seal Here

If you did not close this loan in the bororwer's home, do not execute this disclosure

The borrowers had no problem signing it. I did not/will not/could not. I called the LO (she had called me earlier and I had her phone #. She said it was NOT their form, she's never seen it before and it must be Title's. It clearly has the lender name and address on the form. No notarial wording, nothing, nada, zilch. Tired of dealing with it (spent over 20 min on phone, MY time), I just sent it back unsigned by me. Gets my goat sometimes.

Reply by Karla/OR on 11/14/12 6:26pm
Msg #443424

SO interesting! Thanks for sharing! n/m

Reply by Pro Mobile Notary on 11/14/12 6:36pm
Msg #443426

If a CA notary were to affix their seal on that form, it could constitute grounds for suspension or revocation of their notary commission plus a $1,500 fine. (begin on page 21 first paragraph of the 2012 CA notary Handbook).

In CA the seal can only be used for a notarial act.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 11/14/12 6:42pm
Msg #443427

The CA notaries that I know are smarter than that!

For you to even think that they might consder stamping without the proper notarial wording is an insult!

Reply by Pro Mobile Notary on 11/14/12 7:07pm
Msg #443434

Re: The CA notaries that I know are smarter than that!

Are you trying to tell me that every CA signing agent reading this posts knows everything there is to know about everything in the notary handbook?

You must be joking.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 11/14/12 8:09pm
Msg #443439

That's not what I said. so stop twisting my words. n/m

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 11/15/12 11:02am
Msg #443495

Pro: There is no notarial wording...what would I be

notarizing. It wouldn't fly..
Respectfully,
Stephanie

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/15/12 2:28pm
Msg #443517

Re: The CA notaries that I know are smarter than that!

Uhhhhh, Shoshana, while your statement is probably true (let's hope! ) there are probably hundreds of CA notaries who read this board that you DON'T know (including lots of newbies) who might benefit from that info. I'm not here to defend Howard, but not only did I not take offense, I was thinking about posting something very similar about the first post myself until I read his comment. Just sayin'...

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 11/15/12 5:41pm
Msg #443538

I didn't say all the CA notaries that read this board

what I said was the CA notaries that I know. There's a huge difference! I don't know every CA notary that reads this board.

Reply by pat/WA on 11/14/12 6:43pm
Msg #443428

I agree.
This is not a notarial act.

Reply by rengel/CA on 11/14/12 6:49pm
Msg #443430

Not going to sign due to:

1. Not a notarial act

2. I am not an appraiser or contractor and cannot tell whether the property has or has not been affected by "the" disaster.

My .02

Reply by BBuchler/CA on 11/14/12 6:54pm
Msg #443433

Hmmm, well, based on a few homes I've been in, disaster does not begin to describe what I saw.

My disaster is named Charlie, he has four paws and sharp claws.

But I am always surprised by the forms that can crop up in a loan signing - perhaps we need to have a Wall of Shame area for different forms that they think notaries are responsible for, and by whom they were sent.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/14/12 7:12pm
Msg #443435

Wow . . . They're going to have us up on the roofs of houses before long!

All I can see is I'm at a signing, and I see water stains on the ceiling.
Lord knows, I'm not certifying anything regardless (same issue IMO of certifying "this is the subject property secured by deed . . . " in VA) . . . But in THIS case, do you allow borrowers to certify "no damage" while "rain" is plucking on you from above???

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/15/12 2:37pm
Msg #443519

Stains or no stains, that's not something we should be involved in in any way, shape or form, imo. There could be dozens of reasons having nothing to do with a disaster for stains on a ceiling, just as there could be lots of damage to a property that would not be visible to us at all. I feel that's pure over-reaching by someone who apparently didn't really think this through.

Can you imagine this type of form ending up in a court of law? "Well, the notary said..." Seriously????

As for what the borrowers' certify, again, beyond our pay grade. In any situation, there may be critical information beyond what we can see. Our duty as a notary is simply to ID them, administer the oath, as appropriate, etc. As a signing agent, we might feel it appropriate to attach a note to a set of documents with the facts about what we observed, but I don't think it's up to us to allow or disallow someone's statement on a document.

Interesting thread!

Reply by Teresa/FL on 11/14/12 7:41pm
Msg #443437

I also had came across this form recently

I spoke to the EO and we were able to work out a compromise:

I struck through the "NOTARY: By signing and notarizing....."

and added a jurat to the bottom of the form. This way I was notarizing the signatures of the borrowers who were swearing that the statement regarding their property was true.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 11/14/12 8:58pm
Msg #443445

That was my thought too Teresa, but the lender would not

even "own up" to the form being theirs. They kept telling me it's Title's, which it was not. I just gave up and sent it back with the pkg unsigned by me and let them worry about it later.

Reply by MW/VA on 11/14/12 9:00pm
Msg #443446

That's interesting. I remember seeing a form in some

loan pkgs. a couple of years ago, saying that the property wasn't damaged by Hurricane Charley.
I have heard stories from borrowers recently that the lender's required a new appraisal, which was just a drive-by in most cases.
I think if the tc thought this through, they could come up with an affidavit (sworn statement on the part of the borrowers). We would notarize a jurat in that case.
We can certify certain facts in VA, but I wouldn't stretch it to make a decision regarding property condition.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 11/14/12 9:07pm
Msg #443449

Re: That's interesting. I remember seeing a form in some

I am NOT EVER going to make a decision regarding property condition. If they want that, they need to hire an inspector or appraiser. I'm just the lowly notary. lol

Reply by MW/VA on 11/14/12 9:08pm
Msg #443450

Not this notary either. ;-) n/m

Reply by Teresa/FL on 11/14/12 9:21pm
Msg #443454

I agree Linda

I told them I would not/could not certify the property condition, either as a signing agent or a notary. I said I would notarize the borrowers' signatures and when they agreed that was reasonable, gave them a choice between an acknowledgement and a jurat. They chose the jurat.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 11/15/12 11:04am
Msg #443496

We are not Inspectors or Appraisers and cannot determine. n/m

Reply by ArtG/KS on 11/15/12 8:51am
Msg #443486

In KS we cannot use the word "Certify" or "I hereby Certify" in any notarial act. We dont certify anything under the capacity as a notary. We only take acknowledgements or administer an oath or affirmation. PERIOD. Now in PA they can certify events in a limited way but not act as a building inspector.

I am an insurance inspector for both residential and commercial property as well as a real estate agent, however, I cannot act as a structural engineer. My brother is one and was involved in checking structures in the Greensburg KS tornado a few years ago.

All that said, we can if we want to extend ourselves, take a photo of the exterior of the dwelling with the borrowers permission and send that in with NO comment on it.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 11/15/12 4:15pm
Msg #443527

Just got this form AGAIN in another pkg,different lender ugh n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/15/12 11:35pm
Msg #443578

Well aside from the obvious...

I mean, really... no, I'd never affix my seal to a form like this. It's against the law in my state, as noted earlier.

But also... I don't "close" loans... therefore, the last sentence seems to bee all I need to know, "If you did not close this loan in the bororwer's home, do not execute this disclosure."

Disclosure.... huh? That's not even a disclosure, it's an affidavit/certification.

The person who authored that form is an idiot. I'd just laugh it off and leave it blank or just plain not bother to return it.