Posted by Hiram on 11/21/12 8:12pm
Msg #444331

Forced purchase of Acrobat XI Standard.

Received e-mail today requiring I purchase Acrobat XI Standard so as to be able to encrypt documents to send back to Signing company. Any thoughts on such a request?

Reply by ToniK on 11/21/12 8:14pm
Msg #444332

Already discussed. Orange search button or scroll down about a page. Title servicelink

Reply by MistarellaFL on 11/21/12 8:40pm
Msg #444334

What would happen if most everybody did a Nancy Reagan?

(Just say NO)

I don't work with said SS, but I would think a (professional) email protest is in order.

Reply by HisHughness on 11/21/12 9:19pm
Msg #444337

I think it is entirely with the purview of any business ...

... to establish how it wishes to do business with its subcontractors. That includes requiring a sub to have the requisite equipment the primary thinks is necessary to do the job; if you build roads, you probably want your paving subs to have access to a bulldozer or two. That's fundamental to any contractor/subcontractor relationship, and I am surprised that some people apparently question such a necessary and logical requirement. If you hire someone to clean your carpet, do you not expect them to have a steam cleaner?

If you do not wish to accede to those demands, then don't seek the primary contractor's business. The problem then resolves itself.

Reply by HisHughness on 11/21/12 9:20pm
Msg #444338

Correction: <within> the purview of any business ... n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/21/12 11:47pm
Msg #444343

Re: I think it is entirely with the purview of any business ...

Actually... no, they can't really do that. They can request and expect that you have the tools or ability to perform a task, but they cannot dictate specifically you how you do it.

If they want you to submit encrypted files, that's fine.. there are many ways to do that... not just with one specific piece of software.

Actually, I'm glad that some companies are finally figuring out the sending all of these unencrypted PDF files with borrowers is extremely dangerous... especially when you're dealing with notaries who use email hosts known to be easily hacked.

When companies start getting too dictatorial about policies or procedures for their independent contractors... they start blurring the line and the IRS doesn't like it. Per the IRS, "The general rule is that an individual is an independent contractor if the payer has the right to control or direct only the result of the work and not what will be done and how it will be done."

The more detailed these companies get about procedures and requirements means that they are creating EMPLOYEE relationships and they need to set you us as us --- and we all know that will never happen. They treat you like an employee without any of the responsibility of having one. And sadly, a lot of NSAs with little to no business experience will fall right in to the trap because they don't understand the concept. Too many don't have the first idea of what it's like to actually have an employee... all of the paperwork, insurance, withholding involved... these companies LOVE the fact the clueless notaries will just bend over and do whatever they say without insisting on the protection of an employee relationship.

For those that want to read more: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Independent-Contractor-Defined

Behavioral Control: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Behavioral-Control

Reply by HisHughness on 11/22/12 12:24am
Msg #444346

Re: I think it is entirely with the purview of any business ...

*** They can request and expect that you have the tools or ability to perform a task, but they cannot dictate specifically you how you do it.***

Whatever gave you the idea that a prime contractor cannot tell a subcontractor how he wants a job done? They're called "specifications," or "specs," and it is the way business is done. Set aside a morning sometime soon, and pay a visit to either the public works department or the contract management office of your local municipality. Ask to look at some of their smaller contracts. It will be an eye-opener.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 11/22/12 12:44pm
Msg #444370

Re: I think it is entirely with the purview of any business ...

I think the client does have a right to specify results, and a generic description of equipment that must be on hand to meet the requirements. But over-specification that goes beyond what the client needs to receive the desired results is inappropriate. To use Hugh's analogy, it's ok for a construction company to require that a subcontractor have a bulldozer, but not to specify that it must be a Caterpillar 953D Track Loader.

And when the person writing the requirement appears clueless, one doubts that buying the specified software will even achieve the desired results.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/22/12 10:43pm
Msg #444392

Re: I think it is entirely with the purview of any business ...

That's exactly right. They are perfectly allowed to detail what they expect as far as results go, and depending on the circumstances types of equipment or tools that are generally expected to get a job done (you need to be a commissioned notary with the required state seal, you need to be able to receive and print documents, you need to be able to transport yourself to the client, you need to be able to get the documents shipped, etc.), but they cannot dictate specifics if they want to maintain the independent contractor status relationship. In our case as notaries, one of the biggest issues is behavioral control and the micromanagement of specific behaviors (such as the handholding SSs_ --- that's an employer/employee behavior and one of the reasons I won't work for those companies. I'm not their employee. They give me a job and they need to let me get it done. THe minute they start babysitting me is the minute they need to start carrying worker's comp for me, paying my auto insurance premiums, etc. Since they don't want to do that, they need to learn how to back off and let me do my job and learn how to hire competent signing agents.

I've had experience with the IRS on this very issue. Try reviewing IRS form SS-8.

Reply by Frank/NC on 11/22/12 10:40am
Msg #444359

Re: I think it is entirely with the purview of any business ...

In absolute agreement with Hugh. Rather than either argue the point or decide not to meet their requirements, let them know you you will not comply and then ask to be removed from their vendor list or they will do it for you. Case closed and no more problems or decisions to make that go against your grain.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 11/23/12 1:46pm
Msg #444435

No

They can't tell you what equipment you must have. They can tell you "docs must be sent via a secured/encrypted method". I used to write govenment statements of work/invitations for bids and, for the simplest example, we could say "grass must be maintained at a height not to exceed 2 inches.". But cannot say how that was to be accomplished...mower, goats, or tweezers. Otherwise contractor or subcontractor would be deemed to be an employee.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 11/23/12 1:48pm
Msg #444436

Re: No...not tweezers...scissors. n/m

Reply by sueharke on 11/21/12 10:15pm
Msg #444340

I am able to create encrypted PDF files using PDF Creator (which is free). If the SS wants to enforce specific criteria, then allow them to treat you as an employee in accordance with IRS rules. Another way is for the SS to provide you the software to do the job the way they want it done. My money, I buy what I want and works for me.

Reply by desktopfull on 11/22/12 10:59am
Msg #444362

My .02, NO, they can get a secure email address. n/m