Posted by PegiT_MN on 11/17/12 6:37pm
Msg #443822

HELP!!! Docs Are Dated For Yesterday....

.....and the signing is for tonight. They couldn't find a notary for last night so they got me for today but when I got the docs, they are using yesterday's docs. They did not draw up new docs for the signing for tonight. What should I do?

Thank you so much.

Reply by anotaryinva on 11/17/12 6:41pm
Msg #443824

Call hiring party STAT n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 11/17/12 6:44pm
Msg #443825

I frequently get docs that are dated for a different date. They should know what they are doing. Look in the escrow instructions to see if the rate lock is expiring

Reply by anotaryinva on 11/17/12 6:48pm
Msg #443827

No, don't waste your time looking

Call the people that hired you.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 11/17/12 6:51pm
Msg #443828

If she can't get in touch with them, I vote that she goes

ahead with the signing. Unless there's somebody at an emergency number, she is SOL.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 11/17/12 6:52pm
Msg #443829

I can't reach anyone at the signing company or the title company. I guess I am going to go to the signing and I am going to have the borrower date for today and I am going to acknowledge for today since that is the correct thing to do on my end.

Reply by anotaryinva on 11/17/12 6:53pm
Msg #443830

Absolutely, you n n/m

Reply by anotaryinva on 11/17/12 6:55pm
Msg #443831

Re: Absolutely, you n

Date your docs for today. I'm curious, you are in MN where is the hiring party, or for that matter the TC. I have never not been able to get someone on the phone.

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 11/17/12 9:20pm
Msg #443848

lol! try living on the west coast-often can't reach anyone!! n/m

Reply by HisHughness on 11/17/12 7:11pm
Msg #443832

I'm going to yield to anyone who has been an escrow officer

... on this, because I have never been, but absent advice to the contrary I would not change the dates. Documents are often dated differently from the signing date, and the date is critical only on certain docs such as the RTC. I would play with the docs they sent; if they are dated wrong, it is not a result of your action. If you change the date, and they are dated wrong, it is a result of your actions. My call: Sign with the existing date, change the RTC, and notarize for the appropriate date.

I'd like to hear from someone smarter than I am though.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 11/18/12 4:43pm
Msg #443895

Actually, absent specific instructions, it is not even

necessary to change the date on the RTC.
The doc says that the 3 biz days start to run upon receipt of two copies of the RTC doc.
The date that the signer reeceived them is shown by their hand written date on the signature line.
That starts the clock running.
Not sure if I am smarter than you, but ,for sure, way better looking.

Reply by Carolyn Breckenridge on 11/17/12 7:22pm
Msg #443833

I have been a Escrow Officer and Closer for years. I could be that the documents are not date senitive. Look at the RTC form. If the recission starts on Monday and ends on Friday then it is ok. You could also check to see when the November interest starts. It should also be Friday. If this is the case then the documents are to be dated by the borrowers and notarized on the date that they are signed. If not, then there is an issue. IMO

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/17/12 7:39pm
Msg #443835

PegiT - Don't over reach.

If you can reach the hiring party and tell them of a problem, then do so. If you cannot, don't over reach and concern yourself. Work with what you have to work with. Don't change anything.

The date that is important to you is the date that you put in your certificate.

There may be some grumbling if title/lender made an error and you "didn't catch it," but sometimes people have trouble admitting to themselves that they made an error and throw whomever is available under the bus.

But, they know that they did it, not you. They will call again...and, if they are really nasty...do you really want to work for them?

Reply by dgd/CA on 11/17/12 7:41pm
Msg #443837

Peggy, per our pms, you've been signing too many

Table Fundings lately (lol) Traditionally, Lender Execution date, signing date, separate issues. Sit back and relax, take a deep breath, you know that as long the documents themselves will most likely not expire until the end of the month (You know that all documents issued in the month have an expiration date of normally 10-15 days from date of issuance, unless it's end of the month and then, any Lender worth their salt, extends validilty to at least the first Wednesday of Thursday of the following month to fund).

Thusly, you and your signers are good to go. As far as any consideration to a the rate lock, this is not the time for the borrowers to panic... Whilst I Urge You Not To Discuss This, it can (currently and most often) be extended for 10 days without additional cost to the them. (Well okay, who really cares here that the LO might have to take a slight hit in his/her commission? We're not actually addressing an "up market" here.)

I think you've been so busy, you're operating in overdrive. One of the unfortunate realities (todays world vs "yesteryear") is that this whole process now takes a Lender 60-120 days to complete and then everyones attitude (Lender/Realtor/Escrow) is that we, the CNSA, need to be the "instant responder." I salute you, because I know, you put forth every effort.

Hoping your month is as Stellar as last...



Do your job, as a result, all good things will come to you my friend.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/17/12 8:48pm
Msg #443839

Relax!!! (although this is probably a little late...)

First of all, let me say that I don't know anything about your specific docs, of course, but if I were in your shoes - which it seems like I am at least once a week - I probably wouldn't even bother the EO about it, unless I knew that THAT lender has docs that are date sensitive. It's very common for the document date to be different from the signing date - in my experience.

Like Hugh(?) said, just make sure to correct the RTC dates (if there is one). I always have the borrowers do the corrections and make sure they initial each strike out. [I make sure to tell them what the dates should be.] One exception, though, is for BofA loans. They don't want the RTC dates changed, even if they're incorrect. As long as they put the correct date next to the signatures at the bottom, you're all good.

I look at it this way: if you don't sign anyway, there's a 100% chance the loan won't close on time. If you do, chances are probably better than 50% that it will...

Reply by PegiT_MN on 11/17/12 8:53pm
Msg #443841

I'm Home From My Signing...Thank You Everyone!

I will take a few minutes and read through what everyone had to say.....but I just wanted to update everyone. The borrower knew the documents were dated for yesterday because that is when he was supposed to sign but something happened with scheduling a notary and the signing appointment fell through. I explained to him that we would not worry about the dates that were already printed on the documents.....we were not going to change anything.....however, on the documents that asked for a date.......he would need to fill in November 17, 2012 and my acknowledgements were going to be for November 17, 2012......everything else could stay November 16, 2012.

The Settlement Date on the HUD-1 was listed as 11/16/2012. Disbursement Date: 11/21/2012. Signing Date: 11/16/2012. He didn't have to date the HUD-1 though. When it came to his RTC, TIL, Itemization of Amount Financed, all those FACT ACT, Right To Discontinue Escrow, etc., etc., disclosures......he dated everything for November 17, 2012 and on the ones I had to notarize.......I acknowledged it November 17, 2012.

Oh yeh........and did I tell you......he was married! The lender had him as married on the 1003 and did not have his wife on any of the documents. I knew what to do on that one though......I added her name on the Minnesota spousal documents.....and I do believe we are good to go.

Thank you everyone for all your wonderful support! You are all truly amazing and I just consider myself so lucky to have such fabulous mentors here at Notary Rotary. Thank you again.

Peggy

Reply by PegiT_MN on 11/17/12 8:59pm
Msg #443842

Re: I'm Home From My Signing...Thank You Everyone!

Oh I forgot to add this. We didn't have to cross out any dates. The loan package itself was dated for November 15, 2012, the HUD had a settlement date of November 16, 2012, and a funding date of November 21, 2012, but the signature lines where the borrower was to sign looked like this:

______________________________________
Borrower Date

I had him date all of those for November 17, 2012 since that is the day I met with him, and anything I had to notarize I used November 17, 2012 as well.

I hope that explains it a little better.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/17/12 9:09pm
Msg #443844

I not sure it would be necessary to change the RTC dates

the notice clearly states the borrowers have 3 business days from the latter of 3 events - the date of the transaction, the date they receive their TIL, or the date they receive the notice.

So if they sign and date at the bottom that they received their notice today, they have 3 business days from today, no matter what dates are in or on the docs.

JMO

Reply by PegiT_MN on 11/17/12 9:16pm
Msg #443846

Re: I not sure it would be necessary to change the RTC dates

That is where part of the confusion came in for me. The Notice of Right To Cancel form was a generic boilerplate document. The only fields that were filled in were the Loan No., Borrower's name, and Property Address. Everything else was blank and they were supposed to fill in the dates.

1. The date of the transaction, which is _________________, _________

2. The undersigned acknowledges receipt of two (2) copies of this Notice of Right to Cancel on _________________, __________.

I had him do November 17, 2012 in both date fields.

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 11/17/12 9:41pm
Msg #443850

date handling great... but adding spouse to docs?

I would not take it upon myself to add a spouse to documents without direction from lender or title. sorry Peggy, but IMO that is clearly not your call.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 11/17/12 9:50pm
Msg #443852

Re: date handling great... but adding spouse to docs?

No.....that's what they have us do here in Minnesota. If you get to a closing and find out that a borrower is married, you have to add a line and write the spouse's name on the Minnesota spousal docs which include the TIL, mortgage, any riders, right to cancel, itemization of amount financed, and signature name affidavit. If you don't do it......the lender is going to have to redraw docs and the borrowers will have to re sign and it may mess up a lock. The lenders are very very happy that a notary knows what to do and adds the spouse's name to the spousal documents. I have been complimented many times for knowing what to do in this situation when I get to the signing.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/17/12 10:03pm
Msg #443853

Re: date handling great... but adding spouse to docs?

Same here...except spouse also signs all the "property" affidavits...

I've been lucky enough to always have a company available to confirm...but absent that availability AND providing it was tgei primary residence. (Their homestead) I'd add spouse's signature but knowing that if I was wrong I'd be back out on my own dime and eating a whole bunch of crow!!! LOL

Reply by PegiT_MN on 11/17/12 10:18pm
Msg #443855

Re: date handling great... but adding spouse to docs?

That's Notary Signing Agent 101 here in Minnesota.....if you are going to go out and do signings......you better know that Minnesota is a spousal state and that if the lender does not add the spouse's name to the documents......you better know which ones to add that spouse to...and do it. The lender's only require the TIL, mortgage, any riders that record with the mortgage, RTC, signature name affidavit. A lot of times you have to go into the borrower's copy package and create a RTC and a signature name affidavit. Some lenders require each spouse to sign their very own RTC and of course the signature name affidavit requires a seperate one for each party involved.

I do in most circumstances have the "non-borrowing spouse" sign the "property" affidavits from the title company too such as the Owner's Affidavit, the Title Affidavit, and the Errors and Ommissions Affidavit. Are those the ones you were talking about Linda?

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 11/17/12 10:34pm
Msg #443857

Re: date handling great... but adding spouse to docs?

At my closing last night the mr introduces me to his wife..On the documents it stated he was a single man..(he was married 3 weeks ago) No Mrs anywhere on the signature ..Ohio is a Dower state..I call the Wells Fargo contact and he did not know what to do!! I said in Ohio the spouse signs the MTG, Til , RTC etc..he said he did not know that and asked me what should he do? I told him its not my call..But if I add her name the lender may have in issue with this..He was stumbling and agreeing..I pressed him to make a decision and he finally said No sign..Gee no kidding..

This is the 3rd signing I have had in 2 months that the BO has gotten married after the initial loan process and hasnt told the LO.

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 11/17/12 11:00pm
Msg #443859

had one LO knew BO had gotten married yet he still sent docs

with BO as single. He told her to sign that way and not have spouse sign. So what would have happened if we didn't call or couldn't reach LO and I had decided to have the spouse sign all those docs?
I imagine a re-sign at my expense. Was the LO wrong? yes, I think so, but not my call.

Reply by Buddy Young on 11/18/12 12:01am
Msg #443862

Re: You did good, Pegit n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/18/12 3:55pm
Msg #443893

Re: date handling great... but adding spouse to docs?

"That's Notary Signing Agent 101 here in Minnesota.....if you are going to go out and do signings......you better know that Minnesota is a spousal state and that if the lender does not add the spouse's name to the documents......you better know which ones to add that spouse to...and do it."
plus others. I do consider that important to know as a signing agent.

How do you know that is what you should always do? I'm asking because I am trying to figure out if that is a requirement that is written down for Minn. NSAs, or something that you believe is correct. I am not challenging your decision.

One way to make sure that a document is signed properly is to take an extra document and do it both ways. I don't like to to that, but failing someone to call, I prefer not to assume that I know better than the lender.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 11/18/12 5:56pm
Msg #443903

Re: date handling great... but adding spouse to docs?

"How do you know that is what you should always do?" Because the title companies and lenders have drilled it into our heads. Like I said, Minnesota is a spousal state and if the lender does not add the spouse's name to the spousal documents......you better know which ones to add that spouse to.....and do it. I didn't make that up or decide one day that I would like to add a spouse's name to a bunch of documents because I can and make them sign it just for the heck of it. I got my instructions from the people that hire me.

"I'm asking because I am trying to figure out if that is a requirement that is written down for Minn. NSAs" I do not believe it is written down in a handbook for Minnesota NSA's.....no. I'm not sure what you are referring to.

"......or something that you believe is correct." It is what the lenders and title companies have told me to do when I run into that situation.

"I am not challenging your decision." That's okay......I'm just explaining how it works up here in Minnesota. Is Texas a spousal state?