Posted by CarolF/NC on 11/16/12 2:51pm
Msg #443659

How Do You Keep Borrowers From Reading Docs

I need some helpful suggestions please on how to keep borrowers from reading every line of their loan package while I'm there. Before we start I explain the 3 day RTC. I flip all the pages, explain what is in the all the forms and let them know they can read their copy in its entirety when I'm gone and can call their lender with any questions, but there are those who have to read every line. Took me 2 1/2 hours to get through an FHA loan the other night. HELP. What am I doing wrong?

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 11/16/12 3:06pm
Msg #443660

I tell them that I have only 1 hour allotted for this signing and that my next borrower is on a very tight schedule.

Reply by ToniK on 11/16/12 4:29pm
Msg #443673

I agree with shoshana and I do this n/m

Reply by Pro Mobile Notary on 11/16/12 3:31pm
Msg #443666

I can tell you what we recommend to agents that work with us.

If it is a refinance (won't work for a purchase) when you go over the RTC remind them that one of the purposes of the 3-day period is to give them the opportunity to review all the papers before the closing.

If that does not work then we tell the borrowers, "No worries. Take your time. We will bill your escrow $25 for each 15 minutes this takes after the first hour." That usually motivates some of them.

Reply by HSH/WA on 11/16/12 4:08pm
Msg #443670

How about all of the above (except for the $25/hour) and if still necessary pulling all of the docs back into the file and telling them that they need to have their LO email them a copy of the docs so they can take all the time they want (all the time gathering everything up and standing) and when they read everyting they can re-book for another signing when they are ready to sign. Hopefully, with you about to leave, they will be willing to speed it up but if not - just politely leave. I would truthfully tell the signing company that the BO was not ready to sign.

Reply by Pro Mobile Notary on 11/16/12 4:42pm
Msg #443674

We would have a serious problem with any signing agent doing what you are suggesting of just leaving.

I am sure every LO, SS & TC would bristle at hearing such a suggestion.

Reply by MikeC/TX on 11/16/12 7:23pm
Msg #443699

I'm sure every LO and TC would bristle at your suggestion of telling the BO that their escrow will be charged for the additional time they take to review the docs. And I doubt either would be willing to pay the SA for that additional time.

I understand that as an SS, your primary focus is to get the assignment done and done properly - that way, you collect your fee and pay the notary, the loan closes in a timely fashion, and everyone is happy. I get that, and have no problem with it - this it what you are supposed to do.

And I can understand why you, as an SS, would have serious problems with an SA packing up and leaving in this type of situation. It would mean that a) you won't get your fee for the assignment, and b) you'll look bad to your client.

However, the BO has the right to review the docs before signing them, and not all of them are comfortable with the "you have 3 days to review this and cancel" routine. If the LO or TC have not made the important stuff available for review prior to the signing, that's their problem.

It is not the job of the SA to railroad these people into signing docs by threatening to charge them more for reviewing them, and it is also not the job of the SA to spend more time than necessary at the closing. What you and other SS companies can't seem to understand after all these years is that time is money; a flat-rate payment for a signing doesn't mean the SA will stay there for hours while the BO pores over the documentation line by line. It is not up to the SA to take a profit hit in order to make the middleman look good.

I no longer do signings, but in a situation like this I would have no problem packing up, walking away, and suggesting that the signing be rescheduled. It's fair to the borrower, and fair to the SA. Maybe not so fair to the SS, but most of them take the lion's share of the fee so they can afford to take a hit every now and then...

Reply by Buddy Young on 11/16/12 9:12pm
Msg #443717

You would have no problem packing up and leaving.

The borrowers have every right to read the documents, it's most likely the single largest invistment they will ever make. Do you sign contracts without knowing what's in them?
I do tell them it's standard language.

Reply by Julie/MI on 11/16/12 4:17pm
Msg #443671

Kinda gotta use reverse psychology...you know puff up their egos that they are so smart they don't need to read because they have been there done that and the dox are "boiler plate" which is why you get to close at the kitchen table. Mention their forms are "googleable" and their neighbors and relatives dox are exactly the same.

Your spiel is giving them cause to read--

Have good posture and be confident. dont make a lot of eye contact. Begins right at the door when they open it.Decline all refreshments and petting the family pet(s) or commentary other than you need their licenses before they sit down.
Don't get babbleitius and make small talk. Give them their pens and boom Here is page 3 of the hud. Loan is $220,000 at 3.75 on a 30 fixted, payment with taxes and insurance is $1328.24 beginning Jan 1. Great! That's the whole loan, there is no prepayment penalty and you can be 15 calendar days late with the payment. The rest are standard fannie/freddie docs which is why you get to close at home. The forms have NOT changed since your last refi so let get through this signing your name exactly as printed and you will be provided with a complete set of what you signed.

And you're off!

Reply by CJ on 11/16/12 4:53pm
Msg #443676

This is what I do.

When I get there, I ask which one wants to look at the numbers the most. I have that person sit next to me. If you get the wrong person to sign first, they spend the whole time asking the other person if they should sign each page.

I sit them both down, hand them their pens and get their licenses.

While I am filling out the notary book I say:
"First I am going to show you the numbers. If they are wrong, we don't sign anything." (I say this part first because sometimes they think I am a saleperson, and I am going to force them to sign no matter what. This helps them relax.)

"If the numbers right, then all the words are standard legaleze."

Sometimes they say something that lets me know they are nervous. I say, "If they are going to 'surprise' you, they are going to do it with a number, not a word. I know where all the hiding places are, and we are going to check those first." (That makes them breathe a sigh of relief). Sometimes I add, "If you don't sign, I just get to leave early, and I get paid anyway, so I have no vested interest in you signing". That also helps them relax. (Of course, I really do want it to go well, but if they know I am completely impartial, then they know I am not the enemy and they can trust me to help them understand their loan.)

Then I review the Note with them, (then comes the little speech about "how to sign your name", by looking at the signature lines on the note), and then I go over the Hud (if the Note is wrong, it does not matter what the hud says).

I do page 2 of the hud first, because when people see page one, and and the settlement charges are high (because of impound accounts, up front property taxes or whatever), they get scared. But if I go over page 2 first, then they undertsand why the charges to the borrower are $2,000 on a "no cost" loan. Then I go over page 1 of the hud.

When they are satisfied with the note and the hud, I say excitedly, "Okay, everyone ready to sign? everyone got your pens? (We all hold up our pens) Ready, set, GO!". I start passing the papers quickly.

If the first person starts reading anyway, I point out to them that whatever the title of each document says, is what the whole document is about. For example, they are not going to hide a prepayment penalty on the "no flood zone" document.

If they keep reading, I just tell them what each page is about as I hand it to them. Eventually they figure out that what I am saying is true, and they start to read faster..

Some people are just going to read no matter what. For some people, it is a power/control thing, as in, "You're not going to tell me that I don't need to read this", and the more I hurry them, the slower they go.

(I remember one time I knew I was in trouble. There was an older couple with their adult kids all signing. They brought magazines to the table to protect the table, and as soon as the Grand Poo Bah picked up the first doc, everyone else started reading their magazines.)

(Another time, an older, retired couple both insisted on slowly and carefully reading everything. They were taking their sweet time through the Deed of Trust, and one of them said, "Oh look honey, they took out the paragraph that says you can't sell to Jews or Blacks". I thought, not only have they read all this before, but they have it memorized.")

Sorry this is so long. I am waiting on docs.

Reply by CJ on 11/16/12 5:01pm
Msg #443678

If they are really going to read, no matter what, I have no found anything to stop them from reading. They are going to read. But MOST readers are nervous that there is something sneaky going on, and the more I reassure them that I am there to help them, the more they relax. Sometimes, just being quiet and letting them read, they are reassured that everything is how it should be, and they start to skim and go faster.

By telling them NOT to read it, you just re-enforce their suspicion that there is something dangerous in the loan that you don't want them to see, and they slow down and look harder for that non-existant, evil, fine print.

Reply by Barb25 on 11/17/12 8:27am
Msg #443749

Very true CJ. The harder you push the more resistance.

I have also found that borrowers who have had a very bad previous experience are typically those who want to scrutinize the docs. Only because of the memory of past experience. And somehow you need to go with it and gain their confidence or do as I said below. Not break their glasses, of course, but tell them you will have to call LO and see if you can leave docs. They will usually sign at that point. Remove the pressure.

Reply by Claire Wills on 11/16/12 7:59pm
Msg #443707

Great info CJ! Very informative!

Reply by Jerome Zeiger on 11/16/12 4:59pm
Msg #443677

I tell them I am NOT an employee of the mortgage company. I will do my best to explain everything to them, but they should NOT rely on what I say.
The "you have 3 days to read the docs is fine as long as it isn't a purchase, 2nd home, or investment property, which has no rescission period.

Reply by jba/fl on 11/16/12 5:08pm
Msg #443680

Precisely, Julie

I was thinking that the OP needs to review and possibly revise their presentation. I know my first speak is Hud and then straight to the title docs and SI if included, then right through the package the way it came off my printer.

A nice little glossy definition of what the doc is to accomplish, sign here....and date if needed. Next.....

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/16/12 5:14pm
Msg #443682

I don't keep them from reading...I do let them know

they have 3 days to review and cancel the deal, but if I have a reader, then I have a reader and there's not a lot I can do - it IS, after all, their money and their homes being mortgaged.

I've never had a complete package reader. I've found that my best course is let them read - after a very few documents they tend to get tired of it (or bored) and things speed up. I also point out the critical info first - HUD, note, interest rate, term of loan, payments. If those pass muster we're usually good to go.

Reply by Barb25 on 11/16/12 5:25pm
Msg #443684

Either I just step on their eyeglasses and break them when I

arrive OR:

of course, I tell them about the 3 day RTC. And if that doesn't work...or we wouldn't even be discussing this:

If this is what they want to do, I can understand this. You should be comfortable with what you are signing. However, it will take some time to read all of this and I have other closings/signings tonight. So unless there is something particular that concerns you, we need to call your loan officer and see if we can leave these documents. Then you can just reschedule for another time.

I don't get a lot of "readers" but mostly the more than not want to get it over with... It is more about "control."

But I have had the wacky ones too.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/16/12 5:33pm
Msg #443686

Re: Either I just step on their eyeglasses and break them

Unless they're like me (I have to take my glasses OFF to Read the tiny print!)

Reply by SharonMN on 11/16/12 6:14pm
Msg #443687

As others have said:
- Be confident
- Tell them you're not interested in making them sign anything they don't want to
- Let them read for a while. They nearly always get bored and speed up if you don't pressure them.
- Presentation order is important. Start with HUD, note, TIL and point out the key terms. Don't give them the mortgage before the Note or they will take forever to read it before they understand it's not really the key doc with their loan terms. And save the title docs until the end.

My signings pretty much always range from 45 minutes to 1 hr 15 minutes. Seldom are they shorter, and I can usually get the most chatty, questioning reader done in just over an hour. If you start out telling them what they need to know, they will relax.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/16/12 6:16pm
Msg #443690

IMHO, It Starts with the Confirmation Call

When you call to introduce yourself and confirm the date, time, and verify the signing location (their home address, usually), it is at that time you can ask, "Have you spoken to your loan officer and reviewed the figures with him/her? <Borrower answers "NO"> Would you like to review the loan documents BEFORE WE MEET for our appt? <Yes> "Okay, your loan officer can arrange for you to have a set either emailed or overnighted for your review, after which we will meet and I will witness you SIGN the documents."

I also like the other suggestions of informing the signers of the time allotted for the signing and the suggestion that the escrow company will be billed at the rate of $25 per 15 minutes past the time allotted for the signing. Try this suggestion and see if your signings still take 2 1/2 hours.

Reply by doofus on 11/16/12 6:29pm
Msg #443693

Re: IMHO, It Starts with the Confirmation Call

a large % of my recent closings are doing so, for the second or third time. Not only are they thrilled to see me, they admit that they have had enough of the explaining already. give me the highlights, or, where do i sign. typcal time 30 minutes

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 11/17/12 5:51pm
Msg #443812

Re: It Starts with the Confirmation Call - 100% correct

"Have you spoken to your loan officer and reviewed the figures with him/her?"
***** BINGO! ****

I ask everyone on the confirmation call if they have spoken to their LO * recently * and gone over the figures. Thankfully, most have. When I get one that has not, I suggest that they get in touch with them so that there won't be any surprises regarding the figures when I arrive. I avoid going over the figures myself with them on the confirmation call (other than $ due at closing or monthly amount, if requested).

If it is an after hours signing, I request that the BO obtain a good contact number for their LO just in case they have any questions at the signing but remind them that we may not even need to use the number. I do this even if I have been provided one by TC/SS. The good LO's have already provided a number for their clients and for the BO's that don't bother to obtain one I don't usually have any issues. The latter seems to be the type that just want it over with as quickly as possible. If they tell me that they haven't spoken with their LO in weeks, I know their might be issues at the table.

Others are correct, engineers, attorneys, and others with a "technical" type personality tend to be readers. I let them start reading and either they tire out or I will usually ask them (in a professional way of course) if they understood what they just read and if so, would they mind telling me what they just read meant. When they can't, I remind them of the 3 day period. For me, that usually takes care of 95%+ of the readers and we go forward with the signing

Reply by OR on 11/16/12 7:43pm
Msg #443702

Re: I start by pointing to the document name. If they say ok

I move on to the next document. If that doesnt work I give them 1 sentence to what the document is about. If they want more. I just point and move their eyes down the page to a few more words, until I say and this is where they want you to sign your name. That fixes it for the reading thing. I stay in control of everything. It can go as fast as they want it to or as fast as I want it to. No worries about how long it takes.

Reply by Julie/MI on 11/16/12 7:47pm
Msg #443704

if all else fails

Keep your handy dandy box of kleenex and start coughing and sniffing and hacking....and mention how you hope it isn't contagious.

Reply by Belinda/CA on 11/16/12 8:11pm
Msg #443711

Chuckle n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/16/12 11:18pm
Msg #443729

Re: if all else fails

Yeah, and snort alot, too. That speeds things up.

Reply by CarolF/NC on 11/16/12 8:31pm
Msg #443714

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I think in this case I was stuck. This was their 3rd refi this year and this package was new for me and them, a new product according to the loan officer and only his second. They read every word on every line on every page.

I think I like Julie's suggest is the best. I'm going to use that.

As it was this was my last signing of the day, but had it been my first I would have messed up my schedule for the day. So I gather that it's ok to say you have another appointment, call your signing service and explain they are not ready to sign. As far as getting documents to people prior to signing, I've had little luck with that. I had a couple the other day and the wife made it clear in my initial call she would not sign until she read all the documents. The fed ex package arrived at the same time I did. I was able to get the loan officer on the phone and he explained to them to sign the documents and the RTC and he would talk with them about any questions after I left.

Thanks Again!

Reply by Ali/IL on 11/16/12 8:57pm
Msg #443715

Julie, I like that one about the kleenex.

Some of these borrowers will take their time no matter what hint you give they are just like that.

Others will take the hint. What may work the best is being in control. No small talk no complimenting the kids or the pets. Showing that you are there for business only.

Though it is hard when the little girl has baked brownies or is handing you drawings.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/16/12 9:21pm
Msg #443719

<<<Though it is hard when the little girl has baked brownies or is handing you drawings.>>>

Snub their little kidlet and........

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/16/12 9:16pm
Msg #443718

<<< As far as getting documents to people prior to signing, I've had little luck with that. I had a couple the other day and the wife made it clear in my initial call she would not sign until she read all the documents.>>>

It's not up to you to get docs to the borrowers - that's the LO's job.

<<<The fed ex package arrived at the same time I did. I was able to get the loan officer on the phone and he explained to them to sign the documents and the RTC and he would talk with them ab
out any questions after I left. >>>

The point of addressing it during the confirmation call is so you don't have to deal with it AT the signing. I always follow-up with the signers to ensure that in fact, they did receive the preview set and that they went through the set and are READY to sign. Glad you like Julie's suggestion best, however, some people don't like non-personable people in their home and if you act "all business" like a robot, that may not go over well. Good luck.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/17/12 7:07am
Msg #443745

This is something else I do in addition to all the other

good advice here..as to this

"The fed ex package arrived at the same time I did. "

This is as good as "don't call" - if the pkg is being sent to borrower I don't go until borrower calls me and lets me know he actually HAS the package in hand. I don't appreciate getting to a signing and there's no docs.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 11/16/12 9:04pm
Msg #443716

Agree with 3 posters here. Make it clear during the confirmation call that the signing will take no longer than 1 hr. When you arrive, do the 5 criticals first, in this order: HUD-1; RTC at which time you say, this gives you the extra time after I leave to more thoroughly read the documents; Note; DOT/Mortgage at which time you state the first 2-3 pages are specific to your loan and the rest is pretty much boilerplate which you can read more thoroughly during your rescession period; TIL. And now we will go back and do the various affs and disclosures. If they are still dawdling, I agree with Shoshanna...make it clear you have to leave at a certain time due to other commitments. It's bad enough that docs are often late, but adding readers to the mix just kills your day.

Reply by HSH/WA on 11/16/12 11:15pm
Msg #443727

I like the little kids and small dogs. I enjoy the signing and it takes about an hour. I could do it faster but thats not me.

Reply by AR_razormac on 11/17/12 2:37am
Msg #443742

I have had a few signings that the borrower felt they did not have adequate time to review the documents and wanted to review them at that moment. As stated before this is a huge investment on th BO part. One of my first signings when I was still learning I did a signing and the guy worked the numbers before he signed. I have done signings with little old couples who really wanted to make sure that they were making a good informed dicision. I see it this way, if I have done everything in my power to provide the information they require and they still need explaination or have a problem with it then I am calling the TC/LC and getting it rescheduled. Other wise I am leaving the table knowing I did everything I could remaining impartial.

Your biggest tool is going to be the closing hotline, most TC and LC have one. Keep in mind that they have a little better understanding of the documents but they really only know what is on thier screen, (which is not much more than what you know). If the BO has been in contact with a particular LO have them call that person and hash out the details and questions.

Hope this helps!

Reply by Jessica Ward on 11/17/12 10:23am
Msg #443752

My tips

First, I'm not going to rush ANYONE to sign the documents. I don't want to get called into court for coercion.

Second, one tip I figured out when I first started doing this is to flip to the loan app, and check the profession of the signer. In my experience, ALL engineers read. Doesn't matter if they're building engineers, mechanical engineers, or if they engineer dental equipment. It's in their DNA. CPAs and Lawyers also tend to be readers.

Very young borrowers are often readers, as are the very old.

Third: Be prepared. Call as soon as you have docs, go over funds due to close, new loan terms, etc, make sure that is what they were expecting (rate, payment, new loan balance, term, etc).

Finally, Mention that you have a very tight schedule, and that the documents are highly date sensitive. My script (for a primary residence refinance) is like this (sometimes I do this in the confirmation call, sometimes in the actual appointment).

"On a primary residence loan, you have three days to change your mind, which is really nice--it gives you lots of time after the signing to review paperwork and change your mind. During our closing today, I'll point out the critical items in these documents, but I'm able to allot only one hour for this closing, though most closings are completed in 20-40 minutes. If we cannot sign in that allotted time, I am willing to come back later today after my other appointments have finished. Loan documents are highly date-sensitive and must be signed on the same day they are prepared for. Please keep in mind that I'm not involved in the origination side of the process, and don't know the hows and whys of your particular process. I am however, very familiar with loan documents, so think of me as a tour guide who can answer the "where" questions, for instance, "where will it say if I have a prepayment penalty." If you're ready, we can get started with the paperwork."

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 11/17/12 10:47am
Msg #443753

Re: My tips ---- very well said!

Telling the borrowers your going to charge them extra (as in the posts above) is just plain ridiculous. And could get one into a lot of hot water.
When reading the above posts, I couldn't help but think of this review I read (on the numbers site) of a notary who did rush & berate the borrowers ---

"Mr. x was the notary who witnessed our escrow closing on April 6, 2007 at Chicago Title Company in downtown San Jose. He was extremely rude to us about us wanting to review our documents prior to closing, especially the document that contained actual terms of lending (loan rate, number of years etc). As first time home-buyers, we were not aware of our rights or his role in the actual escrow closing process and believed him when he said that he was acting as a representative of the lender. In hind-sight, we realize that we should have insisted that the title company hire another notary to help us through the closing process. At one point of time, Mr. x actually dragged the document containing the terms of the loan out from our hands as we were reading it! His reasons for not letting us review our documents was that he had clients lined up back-to-back and could not wait for us to review our documents. In case Mr. X does not realize this, it is unethical (and probably also illegal) to demand signatures on papers that the signor has not had a chance to review. Thanks to him, we missed a $4000 difference between our GFR and the actual closing costs! We have since complained to both Chicago Title Company and the office of the SOS about our bad experience and will not recommend his services to other borrowers." (Ouch).

Reply by Jessica Ward on 11/17/12 11:39am
Msg #443762

We often forget that we are a convenience service

If we're not convenient for our clients and their clients (the borrower) how well are we really doing our jobs?

I've only once had to make that promised 2nd trip at the end of the day, and my client HAPPILY paid me for it.

Reply by F2F/FL on 11/17/12 12:01pm
Msg #443766

Re: My tips

off the top I don't act like I am in any hurry, I feel that will put the BO in that mind set if I do.
(if I had the time to use sticky arrows) on the whole package, I point them out so they can see or get a better idea of how many times they/we will be signing the papers. This is why I said in my confirmation call that we would probably be at the table approx 1-2 hrs. (control)
Then I get my log book out of the way (which in FL I do not have to do), and collect the copy/ies of their State Issued ID's. Then I say to them:

1. I am not an attorney so I will be unable to advise you or answer any legal questions, but we can certainly call your LO to get your questions answered.
2. I explain that we will be using the pens that I provided so it all is in the same ink. (control)
3. I address the dating of the doc's and to please date them the same all the way thru the same way. (control)
4. I explain they will be signing the doc's just exactly as they are typed below the signature line either with or with out middle initials I also instruct them where dates are needed on not.
5. I point out their package of the doc's and that if "WE" boo boo we will be swapping them out and chuckle a little. (control)

Usually I let them look over the HUD thuroughly and if they are happy with it then we get started. I give them the title of each doc as it is usually a fair discription of what the doc is, then I point out where to sign and I keep moving on from there. (control)
A little reverse phycology does wonders too. I always make them comfortable with the fact that I am there to aid in this process and that I will never force them to make any decision that they are not comfortable with.
AND I AM OUTTA THERE.

Reply by Mike_D on 11/18/12 12:17am
Msg #443864

pretty much this entire post and subsequent replies is exactly why so many LO's think "notaries" are idiots. literally SMH at some of the posts in this thread.

you want to know the best suggestion to keep borrowers from reading every page? KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. if someone goes into a closing looking like they dont know WTF is going on then, well, pack a lunch cause its going to be awhile. this industry has been dumbed down to the point its absurd and we wonder why people try to pay 65 dollars for closings.


to the original poster, by no means am i singling you out. your post was fine but some of the answers that were given are laugh out loud ridiculous. some of you all are every LO's worst nightmare.