Posted by PegiT_MN on 11/1/12 1:24pm
Msg #441638
Let's Talk Fees
There is so much talk everyday about fees on this board. While everyone is entitled to their own opinion about how much they should charge for a "closing/signing", please do not attack, insult, berate, scold, or result to name calling because one of your fellow notaries accepted a "closing/signing" for a fee you find unacceptable.
Until you know the circumstances surrounding said "appointment", you have absolutely no right to judge. I do agree that $100.00 is a very acceptable fee for a traditional "closing/signing". I wish that all my "closings/signings" were this amount, but sometimes that just isn't possible.....nor is it warranted. Some of my "closings/signings" are well above $100.00, but sometimes they are below. Some notaries would rather sit at home and wait for only the $100.00 plus appointments to come to them......and that is their perogative. Some notaries like to do $50.00 loan mods on their way to the $150.00 appointment and that is their perogative as well.
We need to keep in mind there are a vast array of people on this board doing all kinds of work which are going to make for a vast array of circumstances and pricing. We have notaries traveling many many miles each day to get to and from just one "signing/closing". We have notaries who are printing out more than 300 pages on legal paper for just one "signing/closing". We have notaries who are sitting in one location and borrowers are coming to them for "signings/closings". There are notaries who perform traditional "closings/signings" with the five big lenders. There are notaries who do debt settlements, HELOC's, single document signings, auto loans, loan mods, and fingerprinting just to name a few. Pricing is going to vary for all these types of assignments.
It is not right to call your fellow notary a low-baller because you heard the words $85.00. Keep in mind the $85.00 assignment could very well have been a single document signing where the borrower came to their office, or a loan mod signing on their way to a $150.00 "signing/closing" down the street. It does not necessarily mean 300 pages on legal paper for a signing 45 miles away on a toll road at 8:00 p.m. in a blizzard.
We are all business people who are trying to run a "profitable" business. This site is for us to help each other, communicate positively with one another, encourage each other, build each other up. What kind of people are we to come on here and insult our fellow notaries......call each other names.....tell someone to go work at Walmart.....just because they accepted a fee for something you don't know anything about that doesn't meet with your standards.
| Reply by 1Notary1 on 11/1/12 2:04pm
Msg #441653
I agree with you to the extent that there should be no name calling on other fellow Notaries. But you need to understand something here. Many notaries, like me, are upset at other notaries for keeping those low ballers deadbeats in business. You, or anyone else for that matter, should not let those companies make money off you hard work. That’s exactly what they do. They sit behind a desk while you do the hard work and they get their money just for finding you. They get paid $150-$175 while the notary does all the hard work for them. And then, they have the balls to offer $75-$100 while they do nothing other than finding the notary. Do you think that’s fair? 90% of my work comes from title companies. I don’t get many calls from SS because they cannot pay me. I ask them to take me off their database. In my humble opinion, no notary should accept work from companies such as the one you accepted work from. That’s what keeps them in business. You are getting cheated out of your hard work. Just think of that next time you accept work from them.
| Reply by PegiT_MN on 11/1/12 2:27pm
Msg #441656
I totally agree with you. It's like a catch 22.......we're caught betweeen a rock and a hard place so to speak. When I first came here I had no idea what the difference was between a title company and a signing company. I just assumed they were all title companies because that is all I knew. I had never worked with a signing company before in my many years in the mortgage industry and never even knew of their existence. When I first came here I had no idea what to charge for my signings. I just allowed the company to set the fee for me.
I am ever so thankful for my friends here at Notary Rotary as I continue to grow in this industry and expand my business. I find myself coming to Notary Rotary a little bit more and listening to what is said here on the forum. I have learned the difference between a title company and a signing company. I have learned which companies pay a fair price for a "signing/closing" and pay on time. I have learned what a fair price is. I have learned that just because a fee is offered, I can let them know that I charge more....and I will probably get it. I have learned which companies to stay away from. I have learned that I am worth more and that there are title companies that will pay me what I am worth. I have learned from notaries that have gone there before me, have paved the way for me, so that I may never have to take a closing from a low-ball company and get stiffed.
| Reply by SheilaSJCA on 11/1/12 2:12pm
Msg #441654
Please do not obfuscate the issue here
Anyone who is in the business of doing loan signings, would not confuse a loan signing with a single document signing. When posters talk about fees here, they are talking about loan signings, almost always.
Not general notary work, which is what most everything else is. Sure there are other types of "signings", that may involve printing, and/or presenting documents. (for example an auto loan, or a structured settlement) And those fees can and do vary a bit. Not too many have complaints about those types of "signings".
The bulk of the posts about fees has to do with loan signings. Period.
You are the one assuming that any discussion about fees that may "appear" lowball, to some, is possibly not even a loan signing.PegIt, you assume too much.
At least that is my understanding of what your post is all about.
| Reply by bfnotary on 11/1/12 2:59pm
Msg #441667
Re: Please do not obfuscate the issue here
You are right sheila, anytime I complain about what notaries are accepting as a fee, It always has to do with a normal refi, with edocs, and average miles. 0-20 miles. I don't understand how someone can take 75 for a signing 20 miles away, even if they do have one near there, the actual signing takes the bulk of the time, generally, unless you are a ways away from your house.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/1/12 3:04pm
Msg #441669
I agree...when you say you're owed $85 for a closing
that's not a one-doc deal - that's a full signing, be it purchase package, sale package or refi
$85 is fair for a cash purchas3 or sale docs...IMO is NOT fair for a full refi or a cash purchase, I don't care how close it is.
Sorry..that's JMO
| Reply by bfnotary on 11/1/12 3:27pm
Msg #441680
Re: I agree...when you say you're owed $85 for a closing
I agree Linda H
| Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/1/12 2:32pm
Msg #441658
Re: Let's Talk Fees ~ A Balanced View
Yes, well said Peggy. When I review some of the comments by and pertaining to high-rated companies, it is evident that Fees are ALL some are concerned with. Flexibility reaches all dimensions. Of course, I understand the feelings of animosity surrounding some long-timers in the profession who feel devalued because of the sub-standard fees that some are willing to accept. But how could I "judge" the retired loan officer, paralegal, school teacher, mechanic, or whoever, who just wants a side job - not a profession. Some are coming in after being "stomped on" by corporate Am. and they just want Peace! That's all that matters to them. Now, for those who are coming in and want to make this a FT Career, they should get smart.
My dad works PT at a landfill after retiring from USPS 30+ yrs. He commuted long distances at all kinds of crazy hours, worked loads of overtime, burned himself out (not a delivery person, though) on the loading docks. He, like most retirees has to continue working to support my mom & himself. He's probably making about a third of what he made at P.O. And he's still very active. But he'll tell you, "No way am I going back to that rat race!" He absolutely Loves being outside, driving recycle trucks all over his small town and separating paints and other hazardous materials, etc. Best of all, less than 10 min. from home! He wouldn't be happy not working (which is a good thing, 'cause civil service retirement doesn't get you far when half is deducted of what you earn besides).
For most of us, though, it's not romantic, running all around overseeing the execution of documents, replacing toner like butter, hassling over well-deserved fees. We're all victims in some way of a faulty "system," so it isn't sensible to point fingers without all the facts. That's why the post last week of the notaries working for that one co. was so TACKY - and an insult to all of us. But poster made a good point: Don't read. Don't get drawn into discussions like this. Mostly they're written to "get a rise" out of the audience. And we fall for it.
Share what we Know, not what we earn. Besides, isn't discussing what someone makes ($$) Rude?
| Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 11/1/12 2:36pm
Msg #441660
An amazing follow-up to Original Post.
| Reply by Barb25 on 11/1/12 3:03pm
Msg #441668
PegiT and NVSLady - Anything I would add would only dilute
what you have said. Right on. We need to Walk a mile on someone's else shoes before you judge them. And even then... it is not "our" right.
But "on the other hand" as the ambivalent Tevye, Fiddler on the Roof may have pondered:
I understand the fear that those in the industry have becuase of notaries who just drop fees to grab business. This of course will kill everyone. And is an entirely different situation. Let conscience the be the guide NOT NR notaries.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/1/12 3:08pm
Msg #441672
I think the posts about not taking low fees...at least
from my perspective, is to get people to realize how much more valuable they are than they think...and not let themselves be undersold...and not let companies con them into thinking that "that's what EVERYONE charges".
Anyone with the experience that this OP brings to the table is worth far more than the $50, $65, $75 or $85 she's being offered. Her previous experience and expertise is worth it's weight in gold. And shame on any company that tries to get her, or anyone else, to believe otherwise.
MHO
| Reply by Barb25 on 11/1/12 3:26pm
Msg #441678
No argument
but you and I know there is more than that involved and it is personal. And we cannot publicly flog. As is the case on NR somtimes.
You know I am going to write something here to get a point across and may I shouldn't and maybe it won't get the point across but I will give it a shot:
When I first came to Florida, I interviewed and was offered a job that I was more than qualified for but the person who was leaving was hanging on. My future boss encouraged me to take a position in the retail end to get acquainted with the company. Like a jerk I did. Every day I put on a red shirt and went to work at $7.68 an hour.... And to do this I had to look in the mirror and say to myself Remember you used to be XXXXX for a major corporation. Now straighten that badge and go to work.
Eventually that passed and I got the job promised and I didn't have to work for $7.68 an hour any more. It was more in line with what I was used to. So somtimes everyone needs to just suck it up.
But do what that have to in the meantime. In my case, I had to hand out my resume, when I was moved to the job. LOL
I hope the analogy fits at least a little
| Reply by ikando on 11/1/12 3:39pm
Msg #441681
Re: I think the posts about not taking low fees...at least
Although I really enjoy closings/signings, I've determined to only work with Title/Escrow companies who pay me directly, not through a middle man signing service.
Also, I have another business, so being an NSA is not my main income. It was interesting to me that in a forum regarding that other business, these thoughts were shared related to fees:
My favorite: "Offer peanuts, attract monkeys!" This seems to hold true for those fees offered by many SS to notaries, hence the added burdens they've put on themselves to try to get professional work for those peanuts they offer.
And in relation to what rates we should charge, this came up (writer unknown):
"I said 'standard'. This means you could be on the lower end of standard or the higher end of standard, as the word standard is a range, not a set amount. In addition you mentioned that your clients think you should offer really cheap rates. If your work is top-notch and on par or better than others in your area, you shouldn’t feel bad about an increase in your rates. But make sure you don’t over charge for your area as that could pigeon hole you."
When one remembers to look at the going rate in your own area, then you can feel comfortable that you are charging a reasonable fee for your services. That means that the New York or California NSA will probably need more to cover cost of living than someone in my area. But it would be reasonable to assume that most of the people doing the same function within the same geographic area could settle on a "standard" range (as defined above) to be competitive.
I think these thoughts hold true for any independent contractor or entrepreneur.
| Reply by Barb25 on 11/1/12 6:34pm
Msg #441722
Are you mad at me?
I hope not. I am actually about ready to retire. And about that I am serious. I have had enough. I got a call today that was the end all. One more BS defend yourself and I am good but I don't want to do this anymore.
But more important because in the end this is what is important How is your daughter and how is your husband, and You... How are all of you...
Barb
| Reply by Barb25 on 11/1/12 7:03pm
Msg #441733
Aghhh n/m
| Reply by ToniK on 11/1/12 3:06pm
Msg #441671
My 2 cents
I dont waste my time worrying or complaining about how someone else runs their business. I am only concerned with how I run mine to maximize profits and be more efficient in running. I tend to not compete on a walmart mentality. I aim to provide great customer relations, support and problem free services. Either a company is willing to pay me fees or not. Either way there are plenty of business out there.
I dont view my fellow VA area notaries as competition.
| Reply by dgd/CA on 11/1/12 8:31pm
Msg #441748
Re: Let's Talk Fees as well as yesterdays post...
I have read this thread again and again. I will state this (unequivocally)... everyone has the right to their own opinion, some have been favorable, some have not. However; last evening when you originally posted a message filled with distraught, I felt compassion for you. While I ultimately posted something dull and mundane, (due to my circumstances at the time) it was not what I had the desire to "immediately" post. I will state that whilst many disagreed with you, they were (however experienced) unprofessional in their posts, and failed to remove, due to the fact that it was Halloween, their Monster Masks. (Okay, if you must, feel free to challenge me. This older, 5'1", 97 lb woman can absolutely deal with any disdain herewith rendered).
Surely you will acknowledge that there are times in our stressful, stressful instagram days; weeks, and months, that (for some) tendencies are to thrash out to those that do not immediately affect our day to day lives.
In your original post, you had indicated a signing that you had not been paid for, resulting, of course, in the loss of a particular amount of money. Irrespective of the amount, I felt that it was, once again, a posting of frustration. Similar to so very many, many posts I have seen in the most recent past on this forum.
Given what I recall of your (various) previous posts and comments (and responses to them, etc.), coupled with my knowledge of your background, my "sense" of this, was that this was a "signing" for 2nd TD, or perhaps, a re-signing from a previous NSA. I immediately felt that, perhaps, you had agreed to do a favor for a Loan Officer or T/C as a marketing tool. Haven't many of us, given our backgrounds and financial abilities to account for the high cost of advertising, at some point, done this very thing?
I have every regard for you as a NSA. May you know continued success...
| Reply by MW/VA on 11/1/12 8:49pm
Msg #441754
If you bring up the topic, you're going to get those who
agree & those who don't. That's part of the healthy discussion process. We try to establish credibility & a standard for this industry by encouraging people not to accept low fees.
Frankly, what you charge in your biz is up to you. Most notaries aren't going to help their competition by publicly revealing what their fee is. I know what the going rate in my area is. There's plenty of work, and I pick & choose who I work with & what my fees are.
I can tell you that I think the $100 fee is still too low for what we do, but it is what is it.
When we discuss fees, we're usually considering a full single refi with edocs. Of course there are fee adjustments for other kinds of assignments.
You should know by now that bringing up "fees" is a hot button.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/2/12 4:16am
Msg #441786
Re: If you bring up the topic, you're going to get those who
"When we discuss fees, we're usually considering a full single refi with edocs."
That was my thought, too. That's something that some of us oldtimers assume, but maybe we shouldn't, as this thread brings to light. I think we all adjust our fees on a regular basis for different circumstances. I often do work for less than $XXX, just not a standard refi with edocs! BTW, I think most also consider that certain things will likely be an additional fee (like a big pile of faxbacks, for example), just as eliminating other things will mean a fee reduction (like over night docs where we don't have to take time to print).
| Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/2/12 6:22am
Msg #441788
Re: If you bring up the topic, you're going to get those who
Nowadays, I am less inclined to offer a discount when I don't have to print. I think it makes the job harder for me in that when I arrive, it's the first time I have seen the package. I have to sift through it to find the docs I want to present first. It kind of throws me off my regular rythm. I prefer to receive edocs, put the package in my presentation order, pre-fill my notary certs except for signature and stamp, and it allows me to flag any strange or obscure signature/initial lines.
I recently had an offer from a SS for the second half of a split signing. He ended up not assigning the appointment to me because he wanted to take $25 off the fee I quoted since I didn't have to print the docs. I found out later that the notary he hired instead of me had botched the job and it required a re-sign. He called me to go out to the signer near me and have a POA executed so her husband could sign all the docs for her on the re-sign. It ended up costing him a lot more than the $25 he was quibbling with me over in the first place.
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