Posted by Jonathan Harrow on 11/23/12 2:03pm
Msg #444437

USA Patriot Act

Does the Notary Public sign the USA Patriot Act Disclosure as the certifier?

Reply by desktopfull on 11/23/12 2:48pm
Msg #444447

Yes, you are the one verifing the id.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/23/12 3:00pm
Msg #444448

Agree, but you sign as Signing Agent, not notary

as there's no notarial act invovled.

Reply by CentralNY on 11/23/12 5:44pm
Msg #444453

Convoluted.....

some id forms have a certification signature for notary or a acknowledgement signature for notary, let's make us all crazy. i always acknowledge and notarize.

Reply by pan/nd on 11/23/12 6:23pm
Msg #444461

Re: Convoluted.....

no problem here.....

SOS says notaries here (acting in official or unofficial capacity) may not certify.

SOS says unofficial capacity includes signing agent.......so end of story.

I am directed to cross out, initial and substitute with appropriate wordage if applicable.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/23/12 6:36pm
Msg #444462

Not convoluted at all...

If ONLY you are signing the Patriot Act form (which is what I believe) then you are signing off on this as a signing agent - you are not notarizing anything. I don't care WHAT they have printed on there - now New York may be different, but if it's not a notarial act I don't sign as notary public..I sign as Signing Agent.

An "acknowledgement signature for a notary" better be preceded by the signature of the person you're id'ing. Certifying that you examined their original ID is not a true notarial function.

Remember, two hats - Notary Public hat and Signing Agent hat.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/23/12 9:52pm
Msg #444470

Re: Not convoluted at all...

Linda's right. This is especially important in those states that specify that you cannot use the title of Notary Public for anything other than Notarial acts. And yeah... California is one of those states...and they shout it out in all shouty capital letters in our handbook, too. (See page 7):

"A NOTARY PUBLIC SHALL NOT USE THE OFFICIAL SEAL OR THE TITLE NOTARY PUBLIC FOR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN THE RENDERING OF NOTARIAL SERVICE. (Government Code section 8207)"

So, when you're handling other documents that don't require notarization, that's not notarial service... therefore the different hat.

Most people don't care or even realize it's an issue. It's all the same to them... may even seem like inane semantics -- Notary, Signing Agent, Notary Signing Agent, Notary Public, Notary Closer, Mobile Closer -- I've seen all those variations and more. To these companies and the "outside" world, it's all the same. Shoot, Even to some notaries in others states without stringent regulation it's all the same. But for those of us who have to deal with the threats of various fines, suspension/revocation of commission, jail, etc. it's a very real distinguishable facet of the job that we have to make.

Reply by Budman on 11/23/12 5:49pm
Msg #444454

yes, the next line usually says to print name and title. I never add my title unless I'm notarizing. I'm in California

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/24/12 3:33am
Msg #444479

This is another example of the need to be careful about "always" and "never". I've seen a few recently from one particular lender where the form is designed to be signed off on by the loan officer, not us.

There are a bazillion different versions of Patriot Act forms. You need to read them carefully and use your best judgment to try determine what the creator of the form is looking for AND what you can and cannot do. As others have indicated, sometimes these forms blur the lines between signing off that you're verified the borrower(s) ID as a signing agent vs what we might be allowed to do (or certify) in our various states as a Notary Public. When in doubt, ask your client.