Posted by 101livescan on 10/7/12 9:31am
Msg #437501

Completing Acknowledgements and Jurats, Journal Entries

I decided to repost a piece I responded to a few minutes ago, for NEW NOTARIES, as the thread became long, very informative and is something we all need to be aware of.

According to the SOS, the acknowledgment and jurat are to be completed at the time of notarization with the client. Not before, not after, but at the signing table. And the logging in our journals is to occur simultaneously. I usually take the time to fill in borrowers ID information before they sign my journal and obtain their thumb prints, and I have a list of documents I'm notarizing on a postit to complete my journal. When you've done this as long as I have, you have a routine that becomes very second nature. I'm pretty sure most of you sage and seasoned NSAs out there are doing something pretty similar.

If notaries take the time to read the Lenders Instructions to Escrow and Title, there is a long list of requirements in order to fund the loan (prior to funding)...a few to mention here, SIGN THE HUD, 4506T and of course all loan documents to be signed and notarized, PHOTO IDs to be collected and copies may be requested by Lender. SIGNATURES MUST BE AS PRINTED ON THE DOCS. That's another topic, as many people's signature is a scribble...as long as it is consistent, the lender will accept.

Before I meet with the client, I've gone through the package and tagged the acks/jurats to make sure I get my signature and stamp on everyone of them...in front of the client. There is not enough time in my busy, hectic day to revisit people to get a missed signature.

WHY DO YOU SUPPOSE THIS IS THE SOS RULE? Well, let's say you completed the signing, hop into your car and head for your next destination, you're hit by a mac truck, or hit in a crosswalk, or you have a heart attack! These notarized documents are not completed. The signing is not valid. No one else but the notary who conducted the signing can complete these.

The signing will have to be redone by another signer. Time is of the essence in these signings. Journal entries and notarizations must be completed at the table. Sometimes, more often than not, the rate lock is nearing expiration. Meaning if the documents are not completely signed and notarized, and must be rescheduled for re-signing by another notary, the lender/borrower will have to "eat" a fee to keep the rate, if possible.

How many of you are aware of the Notary Public Code of Professional Responsibility?
The purpose of The Notary Public Code of Professional Responsibility is to guide Notaries Public in the United States when statutes, regulations and official directives fall short.

The standards in this Code are of two types. The majority are principles, policies and practices that have proven over the years to be effective in helping Notaries perform their primary function of detecting and deterring fraud; in minimizing fraud, these standards also work to reduce the Notary’s exposure to lawsuits. The remainder are standards derived from the conviction that a public officer in a democracy must serve all persons equally, without regard to such distinctions as race, nationality, ethnicity, citizenship, religion, politics, lifestyle, age, disability, gender or sexual orientation.

Because the acts of Notaries affect individual rights and property under both civil and criminal law, it is imperative that professional standards for notaries be widely acknowledged as just, fair and well-developed. The standards in this Code were drafted with input from representatives of occupational fields with a large constituency of Notaries Public in 2009.

You may not like that these were developed by XYZ, but it is an elaboration on Professional Guideliines for Notaries I've not seen written any better, in 2009. This is following the huge housing bust and collapse of our financial markets on Wall Street, but does not cover the ROBOSTAMPING fiasco discovered in 2010-11. A blatant violation of all notarial laws across the US.

Code of Professional Responsibility...well, I've been witness to countless unprofessional notaries who very simply do not take their responsibilities very seriously, and they are usually not very successful and can only get the $50 work in my area. More and more, SS's are deducting fees from the agreed upon signing fee for sloppy work, missed signatures, not dropping the package the same day, etc. I met a lady yesterday at a yard sale who said she gave up the NSA business because she was getting stiffed all the time. Sounds like X and ND were her primary business.

Have a great Sunday, everyone.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/7/12 11:08am
Msg #437508

Or something as simple as this...

In CA, we're required to record the TIME that the notarial act was completed in our journals, right?

If we're filling out the certificates and such hours later when it is more convenient for us hours later... that means our journals aren't accurate, either, because the notarial acts aren't being completed at the time indicated.

TO me, You need need to complete it once you start it.... not move on to other things and finish it hours later at your convenience. And unfortunately, this means entire journal entries... at least... from what the Sec of State is pushing lately.

I know that some may not like to this, but it's what has been coming coming out of their office.

That's why, when I posted the letter I got a while ago... I figured people might not like what it said. Given what the Sec of State has put in the recent newsletter, what I have in the letter they sent me, etc.

It's a matter of putting pieces together.

We know there are new law changes coming down for 2013, too... specifically regarding fingerprinting. I have a feeling there are going to be a few other things, too. The hints and signs have been there all year.

See Msg #435031 for reference.

Reply by sueharke on 10/7/12 11:17am
Msg #437510

Change is the hardest concept for humans to understand and adjust too. I agree with Marian that change is coming and how each notary deals with the issue will be interesting to hear about.

Reply by 101livescan on 10/7/12 12:03pm
Msg #437518

I think the goal is to weed out the no-no notaries, who are clueless about their functions, duties and responsibilities. I see it daily. Perhaps there is a plan to finally start penalizing $$ to bad notaries. Freezing their commissions, revoking commissions, etc.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/7/12 1:09pm
Msg #437526

You'd think they'd be doing that all along right? It would be revenue for the department and would send a message that they aren't messing around. I know they're short staffed and all, but the numbers of commissioned notaries have been been plummeting in our state.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 10/7/12 1:16pm
Msg #437529

I remain flabbergasted at the arrogant, my-way-or-the-highway posts on NR. Just because we think we're right, doesn't mean we are. Things are not always black and white. Your reading and interpretations of SOS guidelines are not the only reading and interpretation. Other people may do and view things differently than you, and as shocking and unacceptable and repulsive as this obviously is to you, it doesn't make them wrong. It doesn't make them $50 notaries (what has that got to do with it?), it doesn't make them the scum of the profession, it doesn't make them stupid, their commissions do not need to be revoked while the SOS "weeds" them out.

You take a very interesting thread in which notaries from all over the country are participating, agreeing and disagreeing, and turn it into a counterproductive diatribe about how everybody who does not function according to your standards is incompetent, ruining the profession and a threat to national security. There are other notaries in this country who aim for perfection, even tho it may not be your definition of perfection. And guess what? That's OK.

I did not counter any of the points you made because your interest in points of view that don't match yours is only condemnation, threats and superiority. Spare us another round of that. Once again, the sky is not falling; we are not going to jail, and as you advised the other day, "pull in your whip."

Reply by 101livescan on 10/7/12 2:51pm
Msg #437554

It is always interesting, sometimes entertaining, to hear other points of views. I did not make these rules, I'm just doing my best to abide by them. I make no threats, warranties or guarantees...

Mostly if I don't like what people have to say, I just ignore it. There is plenty of wonderful mentoring on this board with a wealth of solid information.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 10/7/12 2:57pm
Msg #437555

Now that's the spirit! n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/7/12 2:58pm
Msg #437557

Goldgirl, I'm with you...

I prefer to complete my certs for loan docs later, not at the table. Saves time, plus I would go on my computer to the certs I created in Word and fill in all the info so my certs were completely typed and looked even more professional. I did that for signings where time was not of the essence to get the package shipped. Since companies don't want to pay my fee, I do lots of GNW.

Before the 2012 newsletter, I think it was left up to interpretation as to when the certs were to be completed. The handbook 2012 (pg. 11) says, "The certificate of acknowledgment must be completely filled out at the time the notary public's signature and seal are affixed."

I believe the newsletter changed (ruined) that. The newsletter (pg. 2) says, "Signers requesting an acknowledgment should be asked: "Do you acknowledge that this is your signature and that you signed this document?" THEN complete the certificate of acknowledgment....... <yada, yada, >.

It's the "THEN" in that sentence that ruins it. So I don't see *that* part of Cheryl's post as "my-way-or-the-highway. JMHO

Reply by PegiT_MN on 10/7/12 3:16pm
Msg #437561

A Gold Star For Gold Girl!!!

Thank you.

Reply by Buddy Young on 10/7/12 7:42pm
Msg #437594

There are many seasoned expert notaries who post here and we often get differing opinions. I agree with goldgirl that it dosen't mean that some are bad or wrong, it means we have differing interpitations, and that's ok. If we talk about an issue long enough, we usually come up with the best way to deal with the issue, and there is often more than one right answer. Our discussions are good for the masses.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 10/7/12 7:56pm
Msg #437601

Very well said Buddy. Thank you.