Posted by HSH/WA on 10/15/12 12:10pm
Msg #438618

Highly rated SC and their contract is bad

It says that if the client cancels there is no compensation. So the BO confirms, the docs printed, the drive done but while we were doing our job the BO cancelled (before signing and no one told us) and the NSA is left holding the bag with nothing but expenses and wasted time. This is bad, but the SC is so highly rated I will probably sign it too. I have to think that if the above situation happened very often it would reflect in their rating - or am I kidding myself?

Reply by ikando on 10/15/12 12:41pm
Msg #438625

Since a contract is a two-way document, and we are independent contractors, it's my contention that the phrases with which we do not agree should be crossed out, initialed and/or replaced with our contractual terms before returning it to them. If the company initiating the contract does not agree with the changes, they are under no obligation to hire us. However, if they call to hire us, they have effectively agreed to the changes, and therefore must abide by any change to pay if we've performed correctly but the borrower cancels or rescinds.

I also send a confirmation of the confirmation upon being hired which again spells out my terms of doing business, i.e., docs received early enough to print, read and still travel safely, payment due if I've done my job correctly regardless of any rescission or cancellation, and pay to be received within 30 days.

Reply by HSH/WA on 10/15/12 1:29pm
Msg #438630

I also send a confirmation of the confirmation upon being hired which again spells out my terms of doing business, i.e., docs received early enough to print, read and still travel safely, payment due if I've done my job correctly regardless of any rescission or cancellation, and pay to be received within 30 days.

This is the answer, the SC will most likely use an NSA that has confirmed the appt and will be hard pressed to refuse payment if we've done our job and the BO cancelled.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/15/12 12:55pm
Msg #438629

Contracts are negotiable... if you, as a business owner are dumb enough not to negotiate that point of a contract, then you kind of deserve to get hosed. They wrote up the contract like that for THEIR benefit. You need to counter. If they don't agree to it, then you don't have a deal.

Remember... you are NOT an employee. You are a business providing a service and you have YOUR terms and they have THEIRS. You need to negotiate. If they aren't willing to work with you then you need to determine if you're willing to take that kind of a risk.

Personally? I wouldn't. I never work for a company that would refuse to pay me in a situation like that. In every single case when initially given a contract that read as you describe, I countered with my terms, some accepted, others not, but in every case I am always compensated in a borrower cancels and I provide some level of service. I don't work fro free or work on contingency.

Reply by HSH/WA on 10/15/12 1:33pm
Msg #438631

I suspect the majority of SC have "bad" terms in their contracts and the majority of NSA's accept them.

Reply by Pro Mobile Notary on 10/15/12 2:34pm
Msg #438640

To simply strike over certain terms of the agreement, without discussing and securing approval for that action is not a good idea. IMHO your approach is less than ideal and not at all conducive to building a good working relationship with a company you obviously want to do business with.

Just because you sent back the modified agreement does not automatically convey acceptance of your terms. Without your receiving a countersigned copy of the agreement with the strike overs initialed and you do a signing for them anyway, you are operating without an agreement and they are in no way bound to your terms, whether you agree with my prespective or not.

Schedulers of assignments are not in a position to do things with contracts unless the scheduler is the owner of the SS. Just because you stipulate your terms to a scheduler in your acceptance of an assignment also does not convey the obligation you things you are entitled to.

I agree with the perspective that everyone's time has value and NSAs should be compensated for printing and time regardless of whether a signing leads to a closing of a transaction or not. I know of some escrow offices that will take a loss on a refinance file by paying the signing service, even when the transaction does not close. I also have first hand knowledge that there are SS out there that get paid for cancelled transactions and pocket the money and do not make the NSA whole in this situation.

Yes, there are disreputable services our there just like there are many bad signing agents out there.

Reply by ikando on 10/15/12 4:13pm
Msg #438649

Pro Mobile Notary said, "Just because you sent back the modified agreement does not automatically convey acceptance of your terms. Without your receiving a countersigned copy of the agreement with the strike overs initialed and you do a signing for them anyway, you are operating without an agreement and they are in no way bound to your terms, whether you agree with my prespective or not."

As I stated, the contract is between two parties. I have yet to receive a countersigned copy of an SS contract that I've signed. Does that mean, as you imply, that I am under no obligation to follow their contract terms? I don't think so, even though as you state it should be a requirement that they send me a signed copy for my files. If they contract with me to do a job, in my opinion, they have accepted the changes I've made.

And if the schedulers are employees of the hiring party, then they are bound under the contract terms just as the owner is. If they are contractors, then they are acting as agents for the owner, just as we are by taking the work, and are also bound by the contract between the owner and NSA.

Further, if I complete the job I was hired to do, I expect to be paid the entire fee I contracted for, not just print and travel fees (an amount usually determined by the hiring party), which doesn't take into consideration my time spent doing the contracted job.

I realize that on any one particular project the upstream parties may take a hit, but overall, they're also the ones making the majority of the fees they charge the borrower. Why should the NSA, who gave those parties credit while performing professional services (often as a one-off job) not be fully compensated as are the employees in the offices? The employees get paid no matter what happens to any particular loan.

Reply by Pro Mobile Notary on 10/15/12 4:32pm
Msg #438651

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. They are not a hiring party. You are not being hired to do a job, you notary services are being retained for a specific assignment. You were not in a ratified mutually agreed to contract, so the written agreement is not valid for either party.

I am not an attorney, but I can tell you with reasonable certainty that your perspective is not likely to stand up in court.

If they send you a proposal specifying specific terms and you do an assignment for them without a formal acceptance of your counter proposal, it does not mean your terms carry the weight you think it might. In our store the people that do scheduling have no authority to modify the terms of our written agreement and if they tried to, they would no longer be working with us.

Reply by twil4_WI on 10/15/12 8:14pm
Msg #438702

You are not a party to the loan

Here in Wisconsin, not paying the notary if the loan doesnt fund for any reason is of no concern of ours, as we are not a party to the loan. Any attempt not to pay us for that reason would render you a party to the loan, which is illegal, and theft of services. Unless you are a title producer closing the loan, we are hired to witness the signatures and give a brief description of what the document is; we are not the actual loan closers. That is what happens after the docs go back. The hiring entity bears all responsibility for any losses THEY suffer due to non funding. Rendering us liable for any final result is absurd, and has nothing to do with the independent subcontractor services I provided. If I go to the closing, I get paid. If they cancel after I printed the docs, there is a doc fee only. If they cancel before any of those occur, there is no charge, just my annoyance if it was a good spot on my calendar and I turned down other business. I have heard all of the excuses over the years of them not getting paid so how can they pay me. That is their risk, not mine, and they always pay.

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 10/15/12 8:18pm
Msg #438703

Well said Linn!! n/m