Posted by Jessica Conroy on 10/24/12 1:34pm
Msg #440144

How to start a small signing service

I have searched and searched for a few days and haven't been able to find the info I'm looking for. I hope someone can help answer my question. I am a signing agent who is fairly new to the business but I have been very pleased with the amount of work I have received. The problem I am running into (which I'm sure happens to everyone) is getting asked to do closings too close together so I am having to turn some down. Here is my question. My sister-in-law is also a Notary and has plenty of title doc. experience. I would like to start giving her the signings that I am having to turn away. What do I need to do in order to accept the signings and then turn them over to her? Do I need to register as a signing company? Do I need to tell whomever is sending me the closing that I am signing them over to her? Esseciently what I would like to do is this: I get a closing that I can't do. I send her the closing. The fee would be sent to me from the title. co., signing service etc. and I would then pay her minus 5% for my fee. I don't want to become a signing company for more notaries, just her. My reasoning for doing this, is this. She and I would be covering the same counties therefor competing with one another and I can not afford to have the companies I have a good relationship and who send me most of my business start using her because her fee is lower. This way I can pick and choose which closings I can do and which I should send her to and not lose the contacts I have built. Can someone please tell me how to get this set-up and what need to be done. I appreciate any help that you can send! Thanks!!!!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/24/12 1:46pm
Msg #440145

I only have one piece of advice for you..

NEVER EVER mix business and family.

Yes you have to tell hiring parties that you're farming out the work; yes you have to pay that other person a decent fee; yes you'll be taking responsibility for what she does and does not do; as far as registering in your state you'll have to check your state laws.

I personally, don't like this idea.

JMHO

Reply by Jessica Conroy on 10/24/12 1:56pm
Msg #440149

Re: I only have one piece of advice for you..

Thank you Linda for your advice. Yes I know about not mixing family and business. Actually I am one of those people who, like you say, don't ever do it, but I am trying to help out a family member who is in need of some extra work. Lets just pretend I am wanting to do this with someone who I don't know.Say I am just hiring another signing agent. I will have to deal with any repercussions that come up with working with family, that is not really the question I am asking. You said I need to check with the state as far as registering. Does that mean getting a business license? Thanks !

Reply by Clem/CA on 10/24/12 1:55pm
Msg #440148

Just the fact that you don't know how to set up your own business should be a VERY VERY large clue as to why you should not.

Reply by Jessica Conroy on 10/24/12 2:00pm
Msg #440150

I have set-up a business before and I do know what is needed in regards to that. I was just hoping for a little help with this. If every post is going to be negative about how I shouldn't be doing this please just keep your two cents to yourself. Everyone was a beginner at one time and everyone needs advice from time to time. I thought this could be a good place to ask a simple question not be bashed.

Reply by jba/fl on 10/24/12 2:09pm
Msg #440152

Do you have enough capital set aside to pay those you hire whether you get paid or not? That is a huge consideration.

I have no desire to do such, but you will need to search this out a little further to get more definitive answers. BTW - I am not telling you not to do this - I really could care less one way or another. Your tone is a bit defensive though, which tells me you are more prone to making mistakes. Good luck to you.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/24/12 5:59pm
Msg #440180

Forget the signing service:

Become a network, and be a referral provider to your NSA friends and relatives.
Search here for Networks, and refer work to your network members, and they in turn will refer work to you when they are overwhelmed with business, or when someone needs a day off.
Everybody wins!

Reply by sueharke on 10/24/12 2:28pm
Msg #440153

I suggest visiting the Small Business Administration and as for SCORE. SCORE are retired executives with many years of business experience and he or she will be able to advise you on your business plan? Do you have a business plan to present to SCORE? If not, I suggest creating one so you may see how your ideas look to others with an unbiased and experience viewpoint.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 10/24/12 2:35pm
Msg #440154

Let me make sure I've got this right. You are a signing agent who is fairly new to the business. You have this fabulous idea of starting a small signing service because you are having to turn down work. You have no idea what it even takes to start a small signing service. You figure since you have had the good fortune of receiving all these telephone calls from all these title companies and signing companies you say you have built a relationship with, you should at least be entitled to make a few extra bucks from it. You don't want to let your sister-in-law compete against you for the same business as her fee is lower than yours and once these title companies and signing companies you say you have built a relationship with find about about it, they will go with her directly.

First of all.......you are asking about starting a small signing service, but what you are really trying to do, based on what you have stated, is farm out your work and that is a very very bad idea. First mistake your sister-in-law makes, and it comes back on you. Those great relationships you've built up with those title companies and signing companies.......down the toilet! And what happens when your sister-in-law finds out that you are pimping out her services? She can just as easily go straight to those title companies and signing companies and sign up with them herself and get the business directly. She doesn't need you.

We all run into the problem of having to turn down business......it is the nature of this business. Best thing you could possibly do for yourself Jessica is to build the business at hand. You say you have been very pleased with the amount of work you have received, that is fantastic. Be the best signing agent you can be.

Reply by sueharke on 10/24/12 2:45pm
Msg #440155

Since the income from the SS is in your name, you pay tax on all the income you would give your other signer. To avoid this issue means getting a W9 from her so you can send her a 1099 at the end of the year to prevent paying the taxes on that income. Also, ask you E&O provider if there are any legal ramifications to you subcontracting your work to another notary? Do you need more liability insurance to provide such a service to your sister-in-law? Is that something you are willing to do? To this question I suggest paying for consultation with a business lawyer.

Have you considered forming a company where both you and your sister-in-law work work together talking signing from SS from the same location (both just sharing expenses, but separate businesses)? If you do, be sure to put in writing the terms of your business agreement or else the IRS may consider you a partnership (and that brings more issues you don't want to deal with).

As you can see there are lots of questions to be answered and planning to be completed before you are sued for the potential actions of your sister-in-law by some sharp lawyer.

Reply by Roadie_MD on 10/24/12 2:52pm
Msg #440157

what would happen...

if you just gave her number out to the people you turn down? That way you would be helping her out and you wouldn't be in the middle.

When I started in the business, I was fortunate enough to have a mentor who helped me and farmed work out to me. He paid me when he received payment, minus a little for taxes. he also printed the docs for me. I realize now how fortunate I am, especially when every other person asks "wow, how can I get started doing soimething like that'. It is a rare person who will train their competition out of the goodness of their heart.

I agree with the others, that mixing friends/family and money is bad news....not to mention, not doing it the 'right' way could come back to bite you. YOU would be the only one on the hook, not her.

Reply by Jess/IL on 10/24/12 3:00pm
Msg #440160

Thank you sueharke. You did just what I asked for. Just answered my question. To you others I thank you as well for your input. I guess when you put a broad question out there, you are going to get the replies I got. Like I stated before I have opened and run a successful business in the past so I know what is needed in that regards. I didn't realize I needed to write a long paragraph explaining everything I have and have not done. I simply just wanted to ask a few questions regarding this topic. My sister-in-law if fully aware of this plan. She is only looking to pick up a few closings here and there so I am not pimping her out. She does not want to take any business away from me as she knows the time and effort I have put into this. I am not looking to screw anyone over nor am I looking to have any more employees. Just her. Thanks to all but I received the answers I was looking for so I will no longer be posting regarding this topic. Next time I will be sure to lay out every detail of my life so no one will jump to conclusions about my abilities.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 10/24/12 3:21pm
Msg #440163

"Thank you SueHarke" because she is the only one who said what you wanted to hear. You didn't like what everyone else had to say so you got defensive. What happens when your sister-in-law finds out she can sign directly with the title companies and signing companies herself for her lower fee and she doesn't need you? What happens when your sister-in-law makes a mistake and it comes back on you and the title company doesn't want to use you anymore? What happens when the title company starts calling her directly because they know she will work for a lower fee and cuts you out entirely? What happens when you don't get paid from a signing company and you still have to pay your sister-in-law? You might be thanking Sue Harke today for saying what you wanted to hear, but you are basically trying to farm out your work and many other notaries on here as well as title companies and signing companies are going to tell you that it is very much frowned upon and a lot of them will not use you if they know that is what you are doing.

Reply by sueharke on 10/24/12 4:10pm
Msg #440165

For clarification only, I did not intentionally say only what he wanted to hear. I said the same statements and asked the same question of anyone who asks me about starting a business. As a CPA (income tax preparation and handling IRS issues) and an ex-auditor for the State Board of Equalization in an earlier life (happy not to be there still), I saw how many business made mistakes and the end result. I have also seen how businesses were successful by avoiding mistakes and talking to SCORE to improve their business approach.

I liked all the other answers because he or she presented a different point of view from his or her own experience. It is said that it takes a village to achieve a goal and I think the village got together on this question.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 10/24/12 4:17pm
Msg #440167

You must have just said it nicer than we did...

....because obviously the op liked what you said....she thanked you....she didn't thank me. She obviously did not like what I had to say........sometimes the truth hurts though.

Reply by Clem/CA on 10/24/12 6:03pm
Msg #440181

Heck she told me to keep my $.02. If shee calls me for a signing, ( Fat Chance), I'm gonna ask for $xxx.x2!!!

Reply by HisHughness on 10/24/12 4:00pm
Msg #440164

REQUIREMENTS FOR STARTING A SMALL SIGNING SERVICE

1. Buy a calculator that will take dollar entries of no more than 2 digits.

2. Buy a mapping program that halves the distance between any 2 given points.

[NOTE: Both of the above items are obviously available, because signing services in great numbers use them. Unfortunately, I don’t know where to buy them. You might want to check with SOX or ServiceLink to see where they got theirs.]

3. Practice saying:
a) Let me see if I can get that approved.
b) But it’s only (insert pages or miles).
c) I’m sorry, but would you send me another invoice, please?
d) I heard what you said, and I’m telling you we haven’t gotten either one.
e) Fine, I will remove you from our database.
f) It will go out the end of this month.
g) The check is in the mail.
h) I’m sorry, she isn’t here.
i) I’m sorry, she’s out of town at her mother’s funeral.
j) I’m sorry, she isn’t here. She’s attending her parents’ 50th anniversary celebration.

4. Have a serious discussion with your husband about whether it would be too ostentatious to get a red Mercedes convertible.

Reply by sueharke on 10/24/12 4:12pm
Msg #440166

Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR STARTING A SMALL SIGNING SERVICE

Beautiful! I see why people like your replies in this forum.

Reply by 101livescan on 10/24/12 6:40pm
Msg #440186

Re: REQUIREMENTS FOR STARTING A SMALL SIGNING SERVICE

Or, take a trip to Europe and get those botox injections every so often!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/24/12 6:40pm
Msg #440187

Uhm.... Don't do it. For your own good.

Jessica... You're not going to like what I say here.

You said, " I am a signing agent who is fairly new to the business..."

That's really all I need to hear ot know what you're asking is really, really BAD idea. Yuo are falling in to a trap that a lot of new notaries and NSAs find themselves in. They think they have this brilliant business idea. Well, it's not so brilliant... and the smart notaries will figure your out quick and you'll be eaten alive in the business.

Do yourself a favor. And I mean this honestly.... YOURSELF a favor. Don't do it. Make contacts with other notaries in your area that you trust and are comfortable referring to. When you have excess work, refer work to them WITHOUT expectation of compensation. Don't consider it as sending work to your competition. I never do. I don't worry about that kind of thing. In fact, the companies I work for love me for it because I refer good people to them, and in return I still get plenty of work. I also get plenty of referrals in return from those other notaries. It's a professional courtesy and it works really well for me.

I've been approached several times by people saying they'd pay me commission for referrals for this or that... and I've refused them all. First, I don't want to keep track of that. Second, I will refer based on individual circumstance and need, not on monetary gain.


You're new at this...notaries will catch on and, honestly... being new, you're seeing dollar signs... which leads to stiffing notaries and other bad habits which will get you bad ratings in Signing Central here.

I'm telling you... for YOUR own good and reputation.... don't do it. Especially not now. If you really feel, in a few years, that you want to do it... then you should start researching it... but you really should get a LOT more experience under your belt as a signing agent first so you know what it's really like to deal with these companies day in and day out.

Reply by sueharke on 10/24/12 7:27pm
Msg #440195

Re: Uhm.... Don't do it. For your own good.

Well stated. I like the way you explained it from your many years of experience as a notary. I usually see the issue when the notary or business is in real trouble and it costs more money (for legal and accounting fees) to fix the issues with all the agencies interested in getting money from a company. It is better to get some truthful answers prior to starting a business, even if those are not the answers he or she wants to hear.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 10/24/12 7:38pm
Msg #440198

Re: Uhm.... Don't do it. For your own good.

Think of it this way also. If this was such a GREAT idea, we'd all be doing it. I've been at this 7 years and most on this board a lot longer than that. If you can't handle the calls, just tell them to call her. That way its off YOUR back should something go wrong, and believe me, down the line something WILL go wrong. You'll be glad you did. BTW, I'd be ticked if my SIL did that to me, short me and you get a cut.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 10/24/12 10:46pm
Msg #440227

why is your SIL charging less than you? n/m

Reply by 101livescan on 10/25/12 8:19am
Msg #440255

Jessica, I hope you follow the advice of so many before me on this topic. All you have to do is go to Signing Central and see how many SS's have bitten the dust to know this is not a cake walk service. The environment now is so many out there driving the signing fees into the ground while they compete with each other for business, negotiating fees that will garner them accounts with escrow/title, then squeeze the notary to $50 to $100, while they take their cream off the top.

You can't survive doing business in this fashion. A new notary/NSA I know just north of me gets calls for $65 to $90 because she only works with SSs...do you seen what I mean? A successful NSA needs to be strategically networked, not such answer the phone and accept low ball fees, and we all know that, so the goal is to work with solid resources in the business.

It's clearly a no win. Roll of your shirt sleeves and NETWORK with high performers. This is not an option in today's lending service industry.

You'd do better opening a pizza joint rather than a SS.

Reply by Louisiana33 on 10/25/12 11:39am
Msg #440298

Don't do it... n/m

Reply by Bert Gives on 10/26/12 7:50pm
Msg #440621

Hi

I was considering becoming a signing agent, was the course difficult and how long did it take you???

Regards
Bert
NYC

Reply by jba/fl on 10/26/12 8:18pm
Msg #440622

9 years - still learning.