Posted by Clem/CA on 10/4/12 6:43pm
Msg #437214

Notorial Evidence Form

The Department of Corporations has recommended that Some independent Escrow Cos and lenders include a form that would show where the Notary fees charged comes from. They have not given an official form to anyone yet. I got a different version from someone today with a list of notarized docs and fees to be sent back with the package. The borrowers were to sign it. Maybe this is what is going on. Complying to a recommendation that has no set rule, yet. Hugh any thoughts here? I know most states have this department, or call it Division of Corporations, is there a national one?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/4/12 7:04pm
Msg #437216

Clem, search "Chase" here...new form has been

discussed for the past week. So far from what I've read it's only Chase. Not to say it won't spread but Chase is the first and only so far.

Reply by Barb25 on 10/4/12 7:38pm
Msg #437218

Well interesting that FASS has added the form for ALL

its lenders... So that would make sense(???) somewhat there. I don't know about the Dept. of Corporations or what that implies, but someone said the other day that Notary fees were State Tax exempt (don't know because FL has no State Tax and can't remember about NY...(Mike, remember?). But then there is the SE Tax exemption. But how does this involve the Title companies or Department of Corporations. Something else? Anyone?

With the exception of the poor notaries in CA who already have to line item every notarization in their journal, this form is not so terrible from a standpoint of the SE tax exemption for those who claim it. You must already be keeping some kind of log. Or just hoping you won't get called in for audit. No? What? I am curious?

Reply by MikeC/TX on 10/4/12 7:18pm
Msg #437217

That doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense, because the notary fees in a signing only tell part of the story. Notaries who do this work are not just charging per document notarized; there are additional services being provided (including just showing up) which would not be reflected in the per document fee structure.

Also, there is no national department of anything that would deal with this, with the possible exception of the CFPB at some point. Notary fees are all over the map, from a low of 50 cents in some states to a high of $10 in others. Trying to get a handle on this nationally would be like trying to nail Jello to a tree...

Reply by Barb25 on 10/4/12 7:45pm
Msg #437219

Wouldn't it be nice if someone just told us what it was all about. In any event, I just love "trying to nail Jello to a tree." This whole post is worth that.

Reply by Clem/CA on 10/4/12 11:28pm
Msg #437243

LOL I agree!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/4/12 11:35pm
Msg #437247

My thoughts exactly, 'cept for the jello = all Mike's! :>) n/m

Reply by Clem/CA on 10/5/12 1:15am
Msg #437251

Hmmmmmmm

http://www.corp.ca.gov/Laws/Escrow_Law/Advisory_Committee/ELAC/minutes/ELAC060512.pdf

Cal only but look at the first #4 ...

4. Placement of Escrow Fees on HUD I Forms (PJ Garcia)
PJ stated that auditors are saying that notary fees are to go on line 1300 of the
HUD I rather than line 1100. PJ did not agree with this and gave Kathy a sheet of FAQ’s detailing where fees should go. The Department’s position is that a separate breakdown of fees is needed and the escrow company can comply by providing either a schedule to attach to the HUD I or prepare their own closing statement that is in compliance. David stated that he would go over the requirements with examiners.




Looks like more paper work coming

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 10/5/12 1:41am
Msg #437253

Re: Hmmmmmmm

Interesting that the auditors want notary fees to be listed under Additional Settlement Charges instead of being lumped into Title Charges.... wonder if it's their way of determining how much title skims off our fees. It is not uncommon to see a notary fee for $175 on the HUD (even in my name!) but I'm paid $125, for example. In other words, the TC is reporting that it's paying me $175 but in reality it's keeping $50. I'm assuming this is hidden, unreported income to them, and an auditor would presumably be tuned into this ....?

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/5/12 4:00am
Msg #437256

Perhaps ...

there is a correlation between this new need to document the notarizations & corresponding fees - and the fact that those specific fees are exempt from inclusion in the APR (at least for now, barring any change by the CFPB).

Without any documentation (as it has been), the "notary fee" line-item seems to have acted as a convenient dumping ground for dollar amounts kept out of the APR.

Reply by Barb25 on 10/5/12 7:34am
Msg #437262

Re: Perhaps ...

But again, what has the number of notarization have to do with the TC and the $ amount would vary from State to State as someone mentioned in some other post.

I don't understand all the secrecy from the TCs about this. It is ridiculous. It would also be in their best interest to tell us for no other reason than to stop the push-back from notaries if the TCs are being told that it HAS to be done for the reason WE HAVE NOT BEEN TOLD. OMG!

Reply by VT_Syrup on 10/5/12 8:50am
Msg #437268

HUD done according to property location?

So if California has a department that influences how HUDs are filled out, what determines when those rules apply? The location of the property, location of the lender, or location of the title company (or something else)?

Reply by ikando on 10/5/12 9:38am
Msg #437276

Re: Perhaps ...

If the purpose of putting the notary fee on a separate line on the HUD is to delineate how much is going to the courtesy closing notary, I think that could be a good thing on several levels.

1) Leverage for those notaries who live in $.50 per notarization states to get the fee raised. It's in the best interest of the states that collect income taxes, and good for the notaries who should receive more for the services offered. Don't have a suggestion for how it helps states with no income tax. Maybe someone else might.

2) Leverage for all of us who are notarizing many documents in closing packages to be able to actually charge for those notarizations. And since we're independent contractors, we also have a basis for breaking out our actual costs for providing the services, i.e., mileage, printing, maintenance, and time. In my opinion, this gets us closer to being reimbursed for our actual costs of doing business and trying to make a profit.

3) And best of all, if we're listed on the HUD, we get paid faster! Of course there will be those companies that will want to refuse to pay us if the loan doesn't complete for whatever reason, but as independent contractors, we have no vested interest in the loan anyway, and those companies may be in trouble if payment is not made.

But, as others have said, What is the purpose? It would be nice to have an idea so we can make informed decisions for our business models.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/5/12 10:49am
Msg #437297

Re: Hmmmmmmm

I can think of one very good reason...at least from a CA standpoint. There's been a recent push from the Sec of State regarding proper journal record keeping (see the 2012 newsletter). FOr some time they've pointed out the importance of properly notating the fees recorded for each notarial act.

My guess is that they're wanting the "NOTARY FEES" to be kept separate from every else, meaning the notarial acts from all of the other stuff -- and that would include printing and travel.

I'm totally okay with this myself since I already have my business setup this way, including loan signings. I itemize every single one by notarizations, fees, etc. The individual fees for each may adjust up or down to accommodate a flat rate, but I still itemize everything.

In CA, we have to be sure we keep our fees for notary acts separate from everything else because overcharging is a crime and I know the state is checking up on this.

From a borrower's perspective, I'd want to know where my $500 in "Notary fees" was going, too, if just as general knowledge, I'd only had to pay $10 for notary fees in the past at a UPS store. And now, I'm paying $500 for somebody to come ot my house to notarize 10 signatures. The math wouldn't add up.

Reply by Barb25 on 10/5/12 11:18pm
Msg #437389

This is the USA. We deserve an explanation. OK I've said it.

If they aren't going to pay us "extra." They should at least give that. Right? But I must say the speculations have been great.