Posted by Carmela Arndt on 10/25/12 8:48am
Msg #440260

Questions regarding I-9

I know and understand Section 2, so please, no comments about Notary/Agent etc.
My question is regarding Section 1. If you are asked to notarize the employee's signature in Section 1 and Sections 2 & 3 (and I can see that Section 3 would not always pertain), is that not considered an incomplete document? But then all the sections require a different person to sign and you are only notarizing the signature in Section 1.
Your thoughts and comments please.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/25/12 9:05am
Msg #440262

<<If you are asked to notarize the employee's signature in Section 1>>

The thing is, Carmela, you're NOT being asked to notarize a signature anywhere on the I9. Where do you find notarial language?

Now, as you mention, Section 2 IS pretty self-explanatory: You just sign as the Employer's representative/agent. Are you comfortable doing that? Not saying you SHOULD Or Shouldn't. But I'd get a written authoriz from the employer first, stating that I can act in the company's behalf. Also, get a copy of the hiring letter (with start date) along with originals of ID. If employee does not have originals, he/she needs to have the court certify as true copies.

Reply by Cam/CA on 10/25/12 9:15am
Msg #440266

Re: There is a signature that can and is sometimes notarized

the client would choose which certificate they want, Ack or Jurat. I am often asked to notarize
docs/letters that have not notarial certs with them, the client then chooses which one they want.
As I said, I am very familiar with Section 2.

Reply by Cam/CA on 10/25/12 9:17am
Msg #440267

Re: should read "no notarial certs" not "not", wish there

was an edit button.......

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/25/12 9:29am
Msg #440270

Re: There is a signature that can and is sometimes notarized

Signed Form, Loose cert, valid ID . . . sounds about as "Complete" as it can get (:

Reply by MW/VA on 10/25/12 12:49pm
Msg #440317

We are told not to do those in VA. I can't remember the

exact source of the article I read, but I wouldn't touch those.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/25/12 1:50pm
Msg #440329

Re: We are told not to do those in VA. I can't remember the

The ASN had an article about it, but I disagree with some of it because the information isn't correct - just some of it, because they don't have their fact entirely straight about the process

The Federal Government does not require a a notarization on the I9 .. but that doesn't mean the employer, who is the one ultimately responsible for the content of the document might require one, since the I9 is is kept in their files. It's not a document sent to the government anyway. It's kept for recording keeping and verification purposes.

A Notary *can" notarize the signature of the employee in section 1, provided that's ALL the notary does. He/she cannot touch Section 2. That's the key. It's handled just like any other document where a notarization is requested and a loose certificate is attached.

Just because a particular form doesn't indicate that a notarization is requested doesn't mean that it can't be added. We do this all the time with other documents. I can't figure out why people get their their undies in a bunch about this particular form. It's no different.

It's just a matter of keeping a very clear picture of what you're doing based on the employer's wishes, without doing what you cannot do... and filling out Section and adding your notary seal is a big fat NO-NO.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 10/25/12 9:06am
Msg #440264

I just say no.

I am not comfortable doing this. I am not desperate for the money.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/25/12 11:45am
Msg #440302

Re: I just say no.

It's not difficult at all... it's just that it really confuses people and scares them for some odd reason. There's nothing to be scared of once you wrap your brain around it.

Part of the blame for this is because the Federal Employee Handbook tells employers to call a Notary for assistance if they have remote employees... but they don't give them any guidance beyond that, not do they obviously account for varying state notarial laws. And a lot of the time, a Notary isn't even needed or required. Anybody can do, it's just that the Government recommends notaries because we have experience checking IDs and are trusted officials. Can the signatures be notarized if the employer wants? Sure. Is it necessary? Well, the government doesn't requirement it... but the employer can if they want. As long as the minimum requirements from the government are ment, the employer is allowed to add any additional requirements they wish.

Frankly, I handle I9's all the time, both as a Notary and as an Agent... it's all depends on what the employer wants and how they set up their process.

One of the employers I work with sends their new remote employees to a staffing company. The staffing company rep writes down the ID information and takes the copies of the employee's ID for Section 2 as the Agent, and then I notarize the signatures for BOTH the employee and the Agent. It's perfectly legit to do it that way, too, because it's how the employer wants it done. It's more than the government may require, but the government's requirements are still being met, so what does it matter? When it comes to I9 verification, the employer is 100% responsible, even for remote employees, so for them ask for for more doesn't seem that odd if they can prove they did everything possible to comply.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 10/25/12 3:01pm
Msg #440342

Be careful about additional requirements

The federal government specifies which IDs are acceptable on the last page of the I-9 instructions, and THE EMPLOYEE GETS TO CHOOSE WHICH IDs TO PRESENT. This is intended to prevent discrimination against lawful immigrants. If the employer request a notarization, and the employee offers ID that satisfies the I-9 requirement but not the state-mandated notarization ID requirements*, the employer, through its representative (that's us) is REQUIRED to accept the ID, and this means the employer must forgo the notarization and accept the I-9 without the notarization.

Because of this potential conflict between ID that's good enough for I-9 and good enough for notarization, I would be inclined to refuse an I-9 request that included a request for notarization.

*In the case of states with no definite ID requirements, it would be up to the notary to use reasonable care; the notary's idea of acceptable ID might be stricter than the I-9 requirements.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 10/25/12 10:44am
Msg #440283

Since I have no mandatory wording for jurats I could write something like "Section 1 of the attached instrument was sworn to before me by John Doe..."

Reply by A S Johnson on 10/25/12 10:47am
Msg #440285

Texas Notaries should read #23 of the FAQ on the Notary section of the SOS website.
Doing anything with a I-9 is not premitted by a Texas Notary.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/25/12 11:27am
Msg #440294

Hi Carmela,

I got your voice mail from last night about this and I'm sorry I wasn't available. I understand you'll be out all morning, so I decided to reply here, hoping you may see it.

From what you describe here, you're fine... so long as *ALL* you're dealing with is notarizing the signature in Section 1 and leaving the rest of the form alone. Do not touch Section 2 (or 3) if you notarize the signature in Section 1.

People will say, "But it isn't required to have the signature notarized." No it's not... at least, the form doesn't call for it... but the form doesn't say not to, either. Lot of documents lack notarial wording but can have the signature notarized. It's no big deal.

As for "completeness" goes -- As long as everything before the person's signature in Section 1 is complete, you're good. If you take a look at the 2012 Sample Workbook put out by the Sec of State, they tell us, "...in determining whether the document is complete, the notary public should ignore information that is intended to be added later such as information to be placed on the document by a county clerk or recorder or for additional signers whose signatures are not being notarized by the notary public."

See: http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/forms/notary-education-sample-workbook-2012.pdf


As I said, if you are being asked to notarize the signature of the employee in Section 1, that's fine, as long as you are NOT filling out and signing Section 2 as the Agent. I'm sure you know that, but I'm adding this here for those that read it later. This really is a simply concept, but is seems to confuse people.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/25/12 11:34am
Msg #440297

Thanks, Marian. Good to know . . .

<<leaving the rest of the form alone>>

I would never accept these 'cause I thought it HAD to be completed in full. If only the signature needs to be acknowledged, that's EASY PEASY . . .

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/25/12 11:59am
Msg #440306

It totally depends on the employer...

...and what they want. That's the thing. Each employer is different, so when somebody asks, you have to be really clear about what the EMPLOYER wants done.

Usually, The employer is just as clueless as the employee and they think what you'll do is notarize the signature in Section 1 and fill out Section 2. Nope...

It's Either 1 or 2 (as an Agent, not a Notary) but not both. OR you could be asked to notarize the signatures in both 1 and 2 for two different people, though that's more rare...but it happens. I do it.

If you do Section 2 as an Agent, you should have a signed letter from the employer authorizing you first. In those cases, there is no notarization required - just you acting as a private citizen that the employer trusts because you're a notary.

Reply by Carmela Arndt on 10/25/12 11:17pm
Msg #440450

Re: Thanks for all the responses. n/m