Posted by BoomerSooner on 10/18/12 10:06am
Msg #439039

Refi with POA

I have been doing Refi's as a NSA for two years now and today I have my first one with the signer having a power of attorney. I have been refreshing and researching the correct way to ensure I get this correct. Any advice or guidance? Thanks

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 10/18/12 10:13am
Msg #439040

If you tell us who you are going to have the borrower sign and or intial, we can tell yuou if that's correct or not. Many times, you can get that info straight from the title co.

Reply by Buddy Young on 10/18/12 10:15am
Msg #439041

The person should sign: John S. Smith by Jane M. Smith, attorney in fact.

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 10/18/12 11:04am
Msg #439048

not always the case. talk to title

I have had many that have "as" before the "attorney in fact" and if left out you may have a re-sign issue. yes, its picky, but true nonetheless.
i had one with the "as" included and the borrower didn't include it on a couple of the docs which I didn't notice until we had parted. I called title to see if it would be okay and they said absolutely not. Fortunately BO and I easily reconvened.

Reply by Clem/CA on 10/18/12 10:16am
Msg #439042

don't forget the initials js by js, attorney in fact

Reply by BoomerSooner on 10/18/12 10:27am
Msg #439044

Thats one i didnt think of, Initials ever have the attorney in fact statement?

Are there any docs they CANT sign with a POA such as affidavit?

Reply by Buddy Young on 10/18/12 10:32am
Msg #439046

#2.) No not that I know of.

Just be sure when you fill out your ack. that you only write in the person who appeared before you.

Reply by janCA on 10/18/12 10:34am
Msg #439047

The title company will instruct you on how to do the POA, these can differentiate from each title company and/or lender

As far as the affidavit, the person sitting in front of you is who you are giving an oath to.

Reply by Shelly_FL on 10/18/12 1:19pm
Msg #439073

In FL I may not take a sworn statement from an AIF, only

An acknowledgement. The affiant can not possibly know with any certainty what the principle is aware of.

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 10/18/12 11:08am
Msg #439049

Boomer: confirm proper signing with title

my suggestion: just tell them you hear conflicting instructions and because you want your work to be perfect, your policy is to go over their POA requirements. If they are smart they will appreciate your attention to detail.

Reply by BoomerSooner on 10/18/12 11:16am
Msg #439051

Re: Just got the edocs

the husband is signing for the wife and the sign line for the wife has this under it (not the actual names I am using)

"Amanda Smith Miller by John Miller as attorney in fact"

He signs that entire line of information?

Reply by Clem/CA on 10/18/12 11:17am
Msg #439052

Re: Just got the edocs

yes

Reply by MW/VA on 10/18/12 11:19am
Msg #439053

They usually sign all the verbage--no abbrev.

I make up a "cheat sheet", showing initials, etc.--like ASM by JM, AIF
The borrowers always appreciate that. :-)

Reply by BoomerSooner on 10/18/12 11:26am
Msg #439055

Re: called tittle

Thanks for the info, I just called tittle to "touch base" with them and make sure I get the signing done correct the first time and the guy thats on the phone says to me "if you dont know what your doing on a POA signing why did you take the job". Nice attitude, I told him I have done them before but when i got the call for this job I wasnt told it was going to be a POA job and I got nothing back but silence, then he says "i dont understand why your calling" so i just thanked him and hung up. I never had problems calling them in the past.

The guys that answer these phones some times can take away any motivation for the day...

Reply by MW/VA on 10/18/12 11:28am
Msg #439056

Everyone's too busy these days for what they're referring

to as "babysitting". If they didn't provide written instructions in the pkg. have them sign as it's printed, and use initials as we've suggested. You should be fine. :-)

Reply by 1Notary1 on 10/18/12 11:37am
Msg #439058

Re: called tittle

I agree with what the guy said to you except for the attitude.

Reply by dutchcloser on 10/18/12 11:56am
Msg #439061

When in doubt ask for specific instruction in writing n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 10/18/12 12:06pm
Msg #439062

Re: called tittle

I do not agree with the tc guy who was a bit smart aleck. I have seen a few different ways to sign, so I guess what you need to do here is be consistent. I would do as suggested and make a cheat sheet: Allison G. Smith by John Smith, her attorney in fact
AGS by JS, her AIF
and my third line would be the date: today's signing date.

I usually do this so I can fold it tent style and prop it up leaving it in the center of the signing space. That way Mr. BO doesn't have to remember anything and can reference easily without any embarrassed aggravation. I find it easier than constantly reminding.

Reply by Deborah Breedlove on 10/18/12 12:30pm
Msg #439064

Re: called tittle

You were right to call title, and that guy was a condescending idiot. He should know that the requirements may vary to lender to lender. They usually provide their own specific instructions. If not, I call them because I want to make sure it is done to their specifications.

I had one that required the signer to sign "John L. Doe, by and through his attorney-in-fact, Jane L. Doe." Others have just required "John L. Doe, by Jane L. Doe, AIF."

Reply by jba/fl on 10/18/12 12:34pm
Msg #439066

Re: called tittle

Or: Jane L Doe as attorney in fact for John L. Doe.

Reply by Buddy Young on 10/18/12 4:24pm
Msg #439093

Re: yes n/m

Reply by Barb25 on 10/18/12 12:28pm
Msg #439063

But think about the way your acknowledgement will read..

It should not read like that. It should only read as the person who appeared for you or if your state allows capacity: It should read Mr. Miller and Mr. Miller as atty-in-fact for Mrs. Miller --- not not as it appears below the signature line. IMO

Reply by MW/VA on 10/18/12 7:49pm
Msg #439108

I usually use this language on the ack: "Mr. Miller,

individually & as Attorney in fact for Mrs. Miller". I've never had a problem with that.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/18/12 1:31pm
Msg #439077

As for how they are to sign - check with title - each lender has their own specific requirements how they want the docs signed when POA involved.

As for your acks, page 4 of your handbook, acknowledgement in representative capacity:

2. For an acknowledgment in a representative capacity:
State of
County of
This instrument was acknowledged before me on (date) by (name(s) of person(s)) as (type of authority, e.g., officer, trustee, etc.) of (name of party on behalf of whom instrument was executed).

(Signature of notarial officer)
(Seal, if any)

Title (and Rank)
(My commission expires: )
(My commission # )


https://www.sos.ok.gov/forms/notary/NotaryPublicGuide.pdf


I'd call the SOS and confirm whether a jurat can be used with an AIF - I know in FL an AIF cannot take an oath or swear to something on behalf of the principal - it's all acks for AIF's here. Double check with your SOS to be sure - if they're vague check your statutes - authorized duties under power of attorney or prohibited duties under POA.

Whatever you do, make sure you have all this answered before you do the signing.


JMO and Good Luck

Reply by Barb25 on 10/18/12 1:56pm
Msg #439082