Posted by BobtheElder on 10/23/12 1:44pm
Msg #439915

Settle an argument

Okay I need some input from the board. A fellow notary and I have closed loans for the same company and on documents that have only a signature line labeled "notary public" I always add the venue and the phrase "acknowledged before me."

My friend just signs and stamps it.

I think the venue and language needs to be there but he says no...

Neither of us has been told we've done it wrong in the past.

Is it acceptable anywhere to not have the acknowledgement language?

Reply by MW/VA on 10/23/12 1:46pm
Msg #439916

I do as you do. In VA it isn't a complete notarial

certificate without venue & ack or jurat language. I'm sure there's a lot of notaries that are just signing.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/23/12 1:56pm
Msg #439919

I think it totally depends on individual state law...

If you were in California, the answer would be, "Heck no!"

I assume both you and your firned are in Ohio, right?

I quickly glanced at the Ohio rules...and it was only brief so I may be totally off... but it does look like you have some statutory wording... and it does include a venue. See: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/147


From that page:
------------------------
The forms of acknowledgment set forth in this section may be used and are sufficient for their respective purposes under any section of the Revised Code. The forms shall be known as “statutory short forms of acknowledgment” and may be referred to by that name. The authorization of the forms in this section does not preclude the use of other forms.

“(A) For an individual acting in his own right:

State of….................................

County of…................................

The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this (date) by (name of person acknowledged.)

(Signature of person taking acknowledgment)

(Title or rank)

(Serial number, if any)”

(B) “For a corporation:

State of…..................................

County of….................................

The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this (date) by (name of officer or agent, title of officer or agent) of (name of corporation acknowledging) a (state or place of incorporation) corporation, on behalf of the corporation.

(Signature of person taking acknowledgment)

(Title or rank)

(Serial number, if any)”
(C) “For a partnership:

State of…...................................

County of…..................................

The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this (date) by (name of acknowledging partner or agent), partner (or agent) on behalf of (name of partnership), a partnership.

(Signature of person taking acknowledgment)

(Title or rank)

(Serial number, if any)”

(D) “For an individual acting as principal by an attorney in fact:

State of…...................................

County of…..................................

The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this (date) by (name of attorney in fact) as attorney in fact on behalf of (name of principal).

(Signature of person taking acknowledgment)

(Title or rank)

(Serial number, if any)”

(E) “By any public officer, trustee, or personal representative:

State of…...................................

County of…..................................

The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this (date) by (name and title of position).

(Signature of person taking acknowledgment)

(Title or rank)

(Serial number, if any)”

Effective Date: 01-01-1974

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/23/12 1:58pm
Msg #439920

PS - I'll bet Claudine O. could tell you for sure, though. n/m

Reply by BobtheElder on 10/23/12 2:00pm
Msg #439921

Re: I think it totally depends on individual state law...

Which makes my point. The question is really is there a state where you shouldn't add the acknowledgement verbiage?

Reply by HisHughness on 10/23/12 2:28pm
Msg #439925

Re: I think it totally depends on individual state law...

Why would you add acknowledgment wording? Are you not making a choice between an acknowledgment and a jurat when you do that, and isn't that UPL?

It is the reponsibility of the lender and title company to provide the notarial certifiction for their documents, and then, if the wording does not comport with the requirements of your state, it is your responsibility to amend or substitute. The lender/TC, it seems to me, have not done their jobs.

My inclination, being the irascible sort that I am, would be to sign, and forget the verbiage and the stamp. If either acknowledgment or jurat was required, I think the lender/TC would get the idea quite quickly that they weren't doing their jobs.

Reply by BobtheElder on 10/23/12 3:00pm
Msg #439932

Re: I think it totally depends on individual state law...

The instructions call it an an acknowledgment. The package contains a list of docs to be notarized and each is labeled acknowledgement or jurat so I don't think it qualifies as UPL.

That said I agree with your last statement
I might just try that.

Reply by Roger_OH on 10/23/12 3:02pm
Msg #439933

In Ohio, we can't notarize anything without...

a signature. So if a doc needs a certification and has no signature (such as an ID verification), I do so as a signing agent, not a notary.

Can never notarize without the proper certificate, and there isn't one, the signer has to decide which they want.

Reply by BobtheElder on 10/23/12 3:14pm
Msg #439935

Re: In Ohio, we can't notarize anything without...

As do I
This one has a signature. Just nothing below it but the notary sig line.

Reply by SharonMN on 10/23/12 3:36pm
Msg #439938

Re: In Ohio, we can't notarize anything without...

Sometimes I think all states should do away with the notary stamp and just have notary certifications that are signed. People get so bedazzled by the official-lookingness of the stamp that they don't realize that the stamp is evidence of a process that took place - and they don't know or care about the process, they just want a fancy stamp on their document.

Reply by Jodith/WA on 10/23/12 7:43pm
Msg #440009

Re: In Ohio, we can't notarize anything without...

And try to explain to someone from a foreign country where they stamp every page that you can't do that to their document. I can only validly stamp the notarial certificate. I can't put a stamp on every page of your document. I've spent more time on that explanation with people from Russia.

Reply by Jodith/WA on 10/23/12 7:39pm
Msg #440004

Re: Settle an argument - WA State Law

In WA, we cannot put our seal to anything that does not have a valid notarial certificate.

Also, if you fill in the language, then you're deciding whether to use an acknowledgment or jurat, so could be accused of practicing law without a license.

Situations like this get a call to title or lender for them to tell me what form to use to attach a certificate. Otherwise, it doesn't get stamped.