Posted by Pro Mobile Notary on 10/11/12 5:38pm
Msg #438151

The use of drop boxes

We have been seeing an alarming incidence of signing agents doing timely drops in UPS & FedEx drop boxes long before the last pickup time and the docs not arriving the next day by the escrow officer, as expected. The excuses are varied, but the consequences remain. It is not a CA even. Yesterday it happened to one of our signings in CT.

We are now asking our signing agents to not use drop boxes unless they have no other choice. We are asking that the docs be taken to a facility where the package can be scanned into their system immediately and a receipt secured for the package is given.

I can already hear the grousing about the extra time and driving that may be involved, but let me pose a rhetorical question. How much is it worth to you to get paid for your assignment? If the package is not received on time at escrow and the borrower's rate lock is lost because of it who do you think the lender is going ask for the money to cover the rate lock extension? Worse than that, how about if a real estate transaction is cancelled because the buyer did not perform according to the terms of the purchase contract because the package arrived back at escrow? Who do you think will be sued for big bucks? If we get sued due to notary performance our attorney may force us to counter sue the signing agent.

Oh, the overwhelming majority of E&O policies (including ours) does not cover such things, acts or events. That is why we also carry business liability coverage, which would cover this.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/11/12 5:43pm
Msg #438153

People put too much stock in to what they think E&O insurance actually covers. It's almost worthless, really, if you think about it.

As Howard noted, general business liability is really more important.

Reply by Barb25 on 10/11/12 6:41pm
Msg #438164

Although I have never done any work for you, this is an eye opening scenario. And one that I have thought of more than once. I use drop boxes almost always due to the fact that the closest "manned" drop off to me is 17 miles away. (Obviously there are times when a signing brings me closer and I prefer to drop there.) Are you saying that Title companies would be willing to pay for pickup at the notary's home rather than have them drop at "drop box." Because a 34 mile round trip is a lot to ask to tack on to a trip for notaries in this situation. Your thoughts. Again this is rhetorical as I don't do work for you.

Reply by Art_PA on 10/11/12 6:45pm
Msg #438165

"Alarming??????" All of a sudden FedEx & UPS are not collecting from drop boxes????? Are your deals in Afganistan, Syria, or Iraq? Are the Taliban targeting the drivers? This is really impossible to believe. Either the cheapo notaries you hire are lying to you, or you are making this up.

And exactly how many transactions have failed, or rate locks expired, because docs arrived a day late? Do you know about the 3 day right of rescission???

And exactly how many claims have been made against you for docs arriving a day late?? And what are the damages claimed???

Reply by sueharke on 10/11/12 7:18pm
Msg #438174

Art: This reasons stated in other posts are why I do not prefer to use drop boxes. I'm lucky because there are a number of FedEx offices near me, some actually open 24/7 for drop off. I also know the "drop dead" time to give the package to each office for delivery the next day in CA and out-of-state. Luckily, I've never lost a package in a drop box.

Also, I find many SS are surprised when I say I don't like to use drop boxes and prefer to hand delivery packages to FedEx or UPS directly. I wonder why?

Reply by jackpar on 10/11/12 6:54pm
Msg #438167

Been using boxes for 10 years with no problems---the only problem I have ever had was dropping docs in a drop box located inside a Fedex office!!!!

Reply by Leona Greenlow-Turner on 1/30/13 12:38pm
Msg #453124

I, too, have only had one issue with a drop box that was inside of FedEx Office. Since then I make sure and get a receipt unless it is absolutely necessary for me to go to a Mailbox store or similar.

Reply by Matt_VA on 10/11/12 6:56pm
Msg #438169

10 years and I have never, repeat never had a Fed x not make it (except for weather issues). Sorry, but enough already. Maybe there are some boxes in some areas that haven't been picked up. Dropped a UPS once at the DEPOT and it took 13 days to arrive at title. In other words it sat after being scanned for 12 days. You all are going to impose this on your notaries?? Maybe you should just ask them to use heavy use boxes or something. Total overreaction.

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 10/11/12 7:19pm
Msg #438175

Well then if I cant go to a manned location which are very far and few between in my rural area are you willing to pay us more to have them picked up at my home?

I have been doing this for a few years now and I have had problems 2 times. The last time was last month. I walked it into a HUB handed it to the Fed Ex worker because the box outside had no Sat pickup..Guess what she did with it? Yep she walked it outside and put it in the box so she said! Come to find out she took the package home with her to drop later and forgot it in her car..This is what the manager of the HUB told me..After many many phone calls..This package was for a cash purchase..It arrived 4 days late and the deal still went thru!!!

So I would dare to say that if I drop it in the correct box or hand it to the correct person and something happens to that package..How can that be something I can be sued for?? Please..I mean no disrespect but give me a break!

Reply by snoopdogMs on 10/11/12 7:19pm
Msg #438176

I for one will charge if anyone makes such a demand. If I am

close to a hub, I will go without an extra fee. I have one title company that pays $250 and I would go at their request without a charge. Are title companies still charging the borrowers lawyers fees yet hiring agents for an average fee of $150 and pocketing the remainder? And or title co.'s hiring ss that get too much of the pie and expect the notary to pony up. No thanks. I agree, this reminds me of the flesh-eating bacteria scare some years ago and the numbers were moot that actually contracted the bacteria. I guess there could be a silver lining as those low paid notaries will fall in line without compensation and at some point put themselves out of business.

Reply by HisHughness on 10/11/12 7:43pm
Msg #438185

Now, that's a new one -- and most innovative.

Calling an SS "flesh-eating bacteria." WOW! Even if I had come up with that one, I don't know that I would have had the cojones to use it.

I will have to remember it, though, for future communications with ex-wives.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 10/11/12 8:03pm
Msg #438191

How Do You Know They Are Doing Timely Drops?

You say that you are "seeing" an alarming incidence of signing agents doing timely drops in UPS & FedEx drop boxes long before the last pickup time and the docs not arriving the next day as expected.

How do you know they are doing timely drops? How do you know they are dropping long before the last pickup time? You say the excuses are varied, but the only excuse I can really think of is that the signing agent did not really drop when they said they did.

I may be wrong.....but I have several UPS and Fed Ex drop boxes in my neighborhood and I have the pick up times memorized and know the routes these drivers take as they drive around my area at night for pick ups from the boxes as they prepare to head into the city to the airport for shipping. The only way something's not getting picked up is if I didn't get it there in time.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/11/12 8:09pm
Msg #438198

Agree.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/11/12 8:05pm
Msg #438194

That is an awful lot of what-iffery. n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 10/11/12 9:30pm
Msg #438215

I agree, Brenda. We do our best to get pkgs. dropped, but

then it's our of our hands. I'm lucky to have really good service where I live, even a 7:45 pm Fedex pickup that I use in really pressing situations. There's usually a 3-day right to cancel, loans can't fund during that time, and I can't see any major catastrophy if docs don't get back the next day.

Reply by Belinda/CA on 10/11/12 8:41pm
Msg #438206

For what it is worth, I have had packages not make it for

over a week that I had hand delivered to carrier and got a receipt for. FedEx and UPS mess ups are not uncommon. Thank goodness I had a receipt because people were getting all pumped up over the issue and they were all aiming at me. Of course, blame the notary right away. Is it possible the carrier messed up? Is it possible the title company mishandled the package and dropped it behind a cabinet or used it as a napkin? Of course not.

Get receipts if at all possible. When it comes up against you you will be glad you did get a receipt. And just because it has not happend to you don't assume it is trumphed up blah-blah.

My daughter sent a personal envelope FedEx and it took her 3 weeks to get it back. It never did make it to the destination! We could see it going all over everywhere with the tracking number and it was finally incepted and sent back to her. That is guaranteed overnight delivery for you.

Reply by ikando on 10/11/12 10:23pm
Msg #438236

Re: For what it is worth, I have had packages not make it for

Another factor to consider, especially at this time of year, is that both couriers are hiring people to ramp up for the holidays. As we all know, new people have a higher incidence of error because the system is still being learned.

Add to that the potential of weather and other factors impacting the courier business in general (shades of Tom Hanks' movie "Cast Away"), placing the burden (and potential financial responsibility) on the notary to insure next day delivery seems to me to be over the top.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/12/12 1:40am
Msg #438256

Re: For what it is worth, I have had packages not make it for

So true. I avoid using drop boxes unless there are no other options (like a few local carriers who only use drop boxes - and I've had a couple of problems with them). For several years now, I always drop FedEx and UPS in a staffed location and nearly always get a receipt, but I'm fortunate to have several options to do that.

I greatly prefer the FedEx locations that used to be ship centers only vs. the ones that used to be Kinko's, since the service is much faster. However, I did once have a problem at the ship center with a package I dropped off on a Saturday. It was logged into their system, but the new person staffing the counter somehow didn't get it onto the truck. I was told there was a "miscommunication" between the truck driver and the staff person.

For every option, there's the possibility of mistakes happening because there are people involved and no one is perfect. But, of course, we want to lessen the chances as much as reasonably possible.

Reply by CinOH on 10/11/12 9:04pm
Msg #438209

Why should a signing agent not get paid because a courier fails to deliver on time? That's out of our hands. All we can do is drop the package. We're not responsible for the failure of couriers.

Drivers forget boxes, pick up early, get into accidents, have break downs, etc. Winter is coming and planes may be grounded or rerouted because of the weather, causing packages to be delayed. It's not a perfect world.

Maybe lenders, title, etc. need to get docs signed well before the rate lock is set to expire instead of delaying until the last minute.

The only way I'm taking docs all the way to the hub is if I'm compensated for the travel expense and my time.

Reply by CJ on 10/11/12 10:44pm
Msg #438244

I went to my favorite Fed Ex drop box today, (at the post office) and the whole box was missing.

When I DO hand it to a live person, I stand there and WATCH until I see them place it IN the bin. I have had them tell me they will do it, and then it does not happen.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 10/11/12 11:07pm
Msg #438250

Depending on the time of day, I usually call for a FedEx pickup. In more than ten years I haven't had any complaints about this.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 10/12/12 4:10am
Msg #438259

Why are you posting here?

This was certainly an interesting discussion, but I still would like to know why some SS can come on NR, which I consider sacred ground for us notaries, and start telling us what to do. I know this is a general discussion forum for professional notaries, but I never thought the agencies who hire us were particularly welcome here, even if they say nice things, which this one certainly did not. Don't we get enough of these ENDLESS orders with our notary confos: you will do this, you won't do that, your fees will be cut, you must do this and you can't do that. Now, I read we're all going to be sued and countersued and the sky is falling and blah blah blah. Can't we get away from that here? Is there no place safe from our overseers?

And after issuing this ultimatum in OUR forum, we have to hear we're "grousing" about "extra time and driving." Well, excuuuuuse me. Time is money and driving consists of $5 per gallon gas in CA. And if we can't grouse on NR, where can we grouse? All this was followed by a condescending "how much is it worth to you to get paid for your assignment?" Whine.

I really think this should be taken somewhere else. Save it for the notaries who work for you. I don't believe this is the proper forum to issue work orders and threaten notaries, as informative as the topic may be. Or is this just me?

Reply by dutchcloser on 10/12/12 7:01am
Msg #438267

I agree GoldGirl/CA n/m

Reply by VT_Syrup on 10/12/12 7:14am
Msg #438268

Re: Why are you posting here? Disagree

If only notaries are allowed on the forum, others who have information of value to notaries can't provide it. If a secretary of state wanted to come on the forum and explain the reasoning behind some rule, that should be forbidden? If a title company wanted to come on the forum and explain why they like certain ink colors, that should be forbidden.

People on the forum often complain that signers know nothing about the proper role of notaries, but the shouldn't be allowed to come here and educate themselves?

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/12/12 7:45am
Msg #438272

It is a forum for notaries.

I was not going to comment on the grouse remark that Howard made about notaries, but to support the theme that this is a notary forum, I would say:

Of course we welcome notary administrators and professional from all industries who can contribute in a positive manner.

I personally don't care to hear from anyone in any type of business refer to notaries as grousers and complainers. It shows how little he thinks of you (all).

And, further, the big tales about what might happen if you don't follow his instructions are insulting. The sky is not falling.

Where is Julie/MI? Would love another voice of reality on this topic.

ps - I live very close to the main station of Fedex. Never use a drop box. UPS drop boxes are very dependable.

Reply by CentralNY on 10/12/12 8:10am
Msg #438275

Drop Boxes

5 years ago I had a purchase package totally disappear, I had dropped it in a UPS box. It never did show up. Never again. I am lucky to have fedex and ups stores near me to drop pacs and get receipts.

Reply by HisHughness on 10/12/12 12:00pm
Msg #438299

Rght on, Gerard. Next thing you know ...

... curmudgeons won't be allowed to post here, and then I'm toast.

Reply by Barb25 on 10/12/12 8:51am
Msg #438280

Personally, I don't know what the bottom line is BUT

a very good point has been brought up here. I would like to have my packages scanned. Unfortunately I don't have a location that is within a reasonable distance from my location where this can be done on a daily basis. However, Fedex does pickup ON CALL and will scan the package. So I would like the Title Companies/Signing Services to approve that or absolve me of any liability if anything happens to the package after it is dropped off. How about that? Does that work?

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/12/12 1:46pm
Msg #438312

Re: Personally, I can't sleep

at night if I DON'T have package scanned (or at least delivered in person). I'm just crazy that way. A fed-ex driver told me that he could take the package from me (as I'd "flagged him" on his rounds), but he said it cost the sender (or in our case the receiver) more to do it this way. I really didn't get it, but I just don't feel comfortable putting all that info in a waiting trough until pickup! UPS/Fed-ex -Kinkos my 1st choice; then Staples or Office Depot; last of all the "no name" package/mail place

Reply by Barb25 on 10/12/12 3:20pm
Msg #438324

Re: Personally, I can't sleep

There is probably a slim to little chance that a package will go missing but I certainly would love to have the luxury of a scan on my end. BUT as I said driving 17 miles each way for a drop off (and that would be assuming I could hold all packages until the next morning) is not practical. I am not sure even for a fee. Certainly not for free.

I will tell you years ago, when I was in NY, First American called me and was missing a package. It was a UPS package. I did drop that at a UPS store and it was scanned... I never heard anymore about that. So I get the point. Not doubt.

But until Title Companies are willing to think it important enough to pick up the cost, how do we become the responsible party. This is ridiculous. The lenders and TCs (whoever, big business) can write of these costs like nothing. They send out these Fedex labels like nothing. Let's put the responsibility where it belongs. As it is we are doing everybody else's job (or at the very least checking for erros) at these signings/closings/whateveryouwanttocallthems. What more?

And you know what? I am not angry. Just why not stop trying to look for scapegoats and find solutions?

Reply by EileenHI on 10/12/12 2:05pm
Msg #438320

I have no drop boxes anywhere near me and always have an extra 35mile round trip to drop the packages. I also try to always remember to let the SS know that overnight from Hawaii is two days... never really the next day (unless it is on-island, and then the title company most used is only 3 miles farther than the fedex office, so I usually hand deliver to title). Like getting receipts for my drop as well and keep them with my confirmation print-outs.

Reply by Sheila Meinecke on 10/12/12 6:28pm
Msg #438351

I feel your pain Eileen, and would love to have your problem! (living in Hawaii I mean), hands down.

Reply by ShipTropolis on 12/7/12 7:32pm
Msg #445852

Ask the Title or Escrow company to sign-up with ShipTropolis.com so you can print UPS and Fedex labels on demand on their account.

1. ShipTropolis.com is secure for the title/escrow company.
2. It's easy for notaries to quickly create labels on demand.
3. It ensures the notary doesn't get wrongfully stuck with the shipping cost.

Disclaimer: I work for ShipTropolis

Cheers,
Bob