Posted by titleguy_ny on 10/10/12 10:26am
Msg #437884

Veteran in real estate finance but New signing agent

Can anyone give a new signing agent some tips on how to drum up business. I've been in real estate and RE financing for over 10 years now but have yet to be on the opposite end of the transaction, the closing.That was the easy part as a loan officer and a time to schmooze while the signing agent did their thing.. Any tips on cutting your teeth on the first one? How are the fees negotiated? at the outset of the assignment? And how are you usually paid? directly off the HUD as a specific line item to you directly in your name or are you a subcontractor of the title co as a 1099? Do you invoice? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Reply by sueharke on 10/10/12 10:44am
Msg #437892

This has been discussed many times. I suggest a search of the database under "newbie". Welcome to the other side of the table. Maybe you can make some changes from the title side after your experiences as a notary.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/10/12 11:21am
Msg #437902

Welcome to our world...you're in for a shock

You'll learn to hate the smoozing LO's do.

Reply by CH2inCA on 10/10/12 11:28am
Msg #437906

HA! I agree Lee

Smooozing should be done by the time I get to the table. Most often I'm wishing LO's kept their word to the BO about what the numbers really are!! :0)

Reply by titleguy_ny on 10/10/12 4:00pm
Msg #437973

Thanks I appreciate you pointing that out. Didnt realize the amount of info here in these discussion boards

Reply by Clem/CA on 10/10/12 11:20am
Msg #437901

Msg #433395

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/10/12 11:24am
Msg #437903

Message #422437 - check it out..... n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 10/10/12 2:13pm
Msg #437942

This always makes me think of the doctor that becomes a

patient. It is a whole lot different from our side of things--at the "bottom of the food chain", as I refer to it. I know you will be disgusted when you find some of these cos. offering $70 w/edocs. It's been a long time since I was listed directly on the HUD.
I wish some of the LO's would become advocate for us to get paid more decent fees (like $150 minimum for instance). Well, I can dream anyway. ;-) LOL

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 10/10/12 2:41pm
Msg #437954

Dear titleguy: One thing I've never understood is why a former LO would trade that job to join the bottom-feeders of the mortgage industry (loan signers). Another thing I don't understand is why they (you) ask how to drum up business. I would think that your former colleagues would be throwing business your way, asking for you to do their loan signings. (When I first started out I would have killed for an "insider" to help me get my foot in the door.)

In any case, in answer to some of your questions, you negotiate your fee at the beginning with whatever agency calls you for a signing, whether it be a signing service or a TC. Some require invoices, some do not. When you're first starting out, just ask. Often the job order (aka notary confirmation) will spell out if they need an invoice.

All these hiring agencies pay by check of DD (if they pay at all; so prepare yourself for getting stiffed a few times until you learn the ropes). It's rare a notary is listed by name on the HUD. Notary fees are usually part of title charges. As a former LO, you're used to getting paid your commission ... and in a timely manner. As a notary, you should prepare yourself for waiting weeks and weeks and even months before the check arrives and making numerous followup calls about missing payment. (See Message #437945, just posted for a typical situation). It basically depends on whom you choose to work for. Look at Signing Central and sign up with the 4 & 5 star agencies.

As far as tips on "cutting your teeth on the first one." Well, you shoulda paid more attention to the notary during your loan signings instead of schmoozing (we know your type, yakking away while we're trying to get your client signed; or did you mean "snoozing"?). But you already know loan docs, so you're ahead in that department. Just read everything on NR and other notary forums, and study, study, study. There were two recent threads about conducting loan signings; one from Pegit is priceless: Msg # 437528. (She should have copyrighted that post and sold it!)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/10/12 2:52pm
Msg #437958

OK... you can exclude this post from the "no one whose opinion is worth listening to has the time to get into any detail" statement in my message below... Good advice here, too.

Reply by Carolyn Breckenridge on 10/10/12 2:54pm
Msg #437960

One thing I've never understood is why a former LO would trade that job to join the bottom-feeders of the mortgage industry (loan signers).

Why do you consider loan signers to be bottom feeders? It is an important function of the whole process.

Reply by ikando on 10/10/12 3:12pm
Msg #437965

I always refer to my signing agent job as "the low man on the totem pole." If it weren't for us notaries, the whole thing falls, yet we're the ones who are paid least and last.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 10/10/12 3:18pm
Msg #437967

Yes, we are extremely important to the whole process. Without us, nobody would ever own property and LOs, Realtors and TCs would not collect the thousands and thousands of $$ they get paid for each and every loan. And meanwhile, we get paid scrap. And unfortunately, gazillions of loan signers are taking 50-$75 fees for e-docs, driving down the already paltry fees we get paid. If you think we're anything more than bottom feeders, good for you. Nothing like confidence and a sense of importance!

As the owner of a big time SS was fond of telling me: "Notaries are lower that whale poop."

Or as I always say, they wouldn't use us if they didn't HAVE to.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/10/12 4:58pm
Msg #437981

I prefer to think of the bottom feeders as those companies that take advantage of those of us handling this particular segment (perhaps small, but very important) of completing a loan transaction. And I prefer to think of us as critical "niche" workers...

Reply by titleguy_ny on 10/11/12 3:52pm
Msg #438122

Thanks for your answers i really appreciate it. However if it were not for LO's schmoozing and making connections with attorneys and selling agents in order to write loans, you would be be home typing your heart out in a discussion forum complaining about them. You should really know where your bread is buttered. Before you make any generalizations I would suggest you walk a while in the other guys shoes. Believe me the grass will always look greener. Thanks for the answers the answers themselves were very helpful.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/12/12 2:55am
Msg #438258

Nothing wrong with LOs schmoozing and making connections. We know where the business comes from. However, we also know that for our little piece of the pie, time is money and we appreciate it when the schmoozing happens on someone else's time. If you stick it out in this end of the business, you'll figure that out soon enough - and will appreciate those LOs who respect your time with clients, when you're just trying to get their loan signed correctly, then on to the next one. (Yes, I know LOs are not all the same and I'm sure I'm not the only one...)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/10/12 2:45pm
Msg #437955

When I see posts like this, it makes me wonder why you decided to get into loan signings... Was it because it looked easy from the other side of the table while you schmoozed with the client? (Sorry, couldn't help myself.) You may be in for a surprise in more ways than Lee/AR alluded to! (BTW, I'm not implying the LO's job is easy. I know better! But there's more to being a loan signer than meets the eye, too, as you may be finding out.)

There is an abundance of information available right here. Familiarize yourself with the Orange search button on the home page of this forum and get busy. It's time for you to do your homework. Those types of questions have been asked a bajillion times and no one whose opinion is worth listening to has the time to get into any detail on any of those issues. Also, read here every day and read as much as you can of old messages. I've been doing this for 10 years and I still learn something new almost daily.

A good message to start with is #33325. A little bit dated, but still good info there. You also might want to consider taking a signing agent class to learn more about the business side of being a loan signer. Notary2Pro might be a good option for you, from what I've heard. (I wish I had found something like that when I was new...) As for the NNA, my personal opinion is to save your $$, and I suspect many here will agree with me on that.

This site has tons of great resources, so you might start with becoming a Premier Member and creating a good profile. If you link it, people here might give you helpful feedback, if you ask for it. (There are lots of other benefits, too, like discounts on quality supplies - and great service.)

Good luck!

Reply by Treasure Valley Notary - Tina on 10/10/12 4:25pm
Msg #437977

I am Curious

It amazes me . . . but why would you decide on a "new career" and not research these questions before you made that decision? I'm not picking on you, since we see this constantly. But wouldn't it make more sense to have done your homework ahead of time and then decide if this is a good fit for you? The answers to your questions may not be what you want. Only you can decide your fees. And those should be based on your expenses and profit margin.


I was just asked to drive 3 hours into the mountains up a twisty, windy two lane road that has tons of tourists that are sight seeing. It was for 8 am. That meant I had to be up at 4 am to leave by 5 am. I advertise that I am 24 hours and it is true. But my fee really goes up to get up that early. I quoted $500. The signing service just about fell off their chair and said sharply good bye. I am looking at an 8 hour day if the traffic and road conditions are good (I will triple check those docs at the signing table). Plus the gas, food, my time, etc. I value my time whether they do or not. Someone else may have a totally different fee structure. Or they may even refuse to entertain such an assignment.

Before you get too settled into thinking this is what you are going to do . . . do the research. How many people are you competing with in your area? That is where I would start. And don't undercut them just so you can work. In the long run that will only bite you and the industry in the rear. And when you are thinking about your obvious expenses, don't forget the hidden ones. Like when you have to replace your laser printer because your current one just up and died without warning. Or when you drop your cell phone in a mud puddle as you are juggling your briefcase, keys, etc in the dark. Or vacation time. Or when you have to buy new tires for your car. Or better yet, you have to buy a new car since you put so many miles on your current one you wore it out.


Once you have figured out your fees, stick to them. There are tons of companies that will try to sweet talk you into "working with them, just this once." Some have set their fees so low that to work for them you will actually lose money because they can't offer a true independent contractor fee. The fees for $60 including the edoc fee are for employees. At least they should be. Because as self-employed you will make $0 from it (do the math, don't take my word on it). If I am going to be paid less than minimum wage it sure isn't going to be as an independent contractor.

If you are not sure how to answer some of your questions, contacting someone local would be a good start. The Small Business Administration offers free help in running businesses. Most small businesses are out of business within 5 years of start up (most don't even make it 2-3 years). And it is because they didn't do their homework. If you don't know how to market yourself, then I highly suggest that you hire someone that can (well worth the investment!). Hire a business coach to keep you on task and direct you down your new path. The resources are out there.


Wishing you the very best on this new endeavor!

Reply by Yoli/CA on 10/10/12 7:04pm
Msg #437993

5-Star post, Treasure Valley Notary-Tina!! n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/10/12 10:54pm
Msg #438029

Re: 5-Star post. Agreed, Yoli! Great stuff, Tina! n/m

Reply by titleguy_ny on 10/11/12 3:40pm
Msg #438119

Re: I am Curious

What amazes me is why you would say yes to something that you obviously do not want to do or find you will lose money. I am not picking on you but why?? Does anyone here have the ability to say NO?? I have plenty of contacts in the title industry which I intend to fully utilize. There are expenses in every business, EVERY BUSINESS, and if that has comes as a surprise to anyone then maybe they should have thought this out better. Seems to me as a person from the outside maybe everyone here venting and bitc*ing about how bad it is and how much they are getting screwed, how much more money others make, might be better served attempting to add better quality to their referral base instead of complaining in this forum. I'm not looking at getting into a pi**ing contest with anyone and I really do appreciate all of the help on this board

Reply by HisHughness on 10/11/12 3:58pm
Msg #438125

If arrogance was a requisite for a successful signing agent

you would be well-equipped.

Reply by titleguy_ny on 10/11/12 4:07pm
Msg #438132

Re: If arrogance was a requisite for a successful signing agent

Thank you very much, You must be quite successful yourself and do wish you continued success well into the future..