Posted by Joan Bergstrom on 10/20/12 9:19pm
Msg #439424

Where is the notary fee on most HUD Settlement Statement?

I almost never find the notary fee on the HUD. A few years ago it was listed almost 50% of the time and now I almost never see it.
It could be, it's just the companies, I work with and other loan signers have a different experience.
Where do they place it when it's not listed?

Reply by ToniK on 10/20/12 9:22pm
Msg #439425

Sometimes its on there, most times not. I see it sometimes on the HUD Addendum, at least with the companies I work for.

Reply by Gregory/CA on 10/20/12 9:39pm
Msg #439427

I keep searching the HUD for it and yet come up empty each time. It must be mixed in with another fee.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/20/12 9:58pm
Msg #439430

If it is done *properly* it's supposed to be listed ... but that's pretty much only when you are paid directly, or if the signing service is paid directly.

Most of the time, though that never happens. It's usually combined in other fees as administrative services connected with Title.

I have seen it listed in all kinds of places... and I'm referring to the new form. I"ve seen it listed on line 808, as part of 1102, and listed in the 1300s freeform. Most of the time, it's not there at all, and just assumed to be a part of 1102, " settlement and closing fees" -- which doesn't say much.

I've had a couple of borrowers get pretty upset about it, actually. They wanted their settlement fees to be more itemized and they actually canceled the signing and said they wanted to see the actual fees delineated in the proper places, not combined. I mean, they wanted to know down to the shipping fees what they were paying for. I don't blame them. It's their money. They have the right to now.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 10/20/12 10:01pm
Msg #439431

Even when I get paid directly, I very seldom find the notary fee. Actually, I can't remember
the last time I saw it.

Reply by bfnotary on 10/20/12 10:11pm
Msg #439433

I seen one the other week that said 400....I was highly upset considering i was getting 125...That is wrong... on so many levels.

Reply by 101livescan on 10/20/12 10:29pm
Msg #439435

Message Deleted

This message has been deleted by a forum moderator.

Reason: Author Request - Special Exception

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/20/12 10:34pm
Msg #439438

"Marian is driving me nuts"

I'm sorry.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 10/20/12 11:24pm
Msg #439441

Well, since you asked, here I am!!!

If Marian, Lisa and me are driving you nuts, we certainly don't have far to go. I'm thrilled you realize I don't run in your circles, and the farther apart our NR colleagues realize that you and I are, the better for me. The ironic thing is that I have very little in common with Lisa or Marian, either, so it's interesting you would group us together. In fact the only thing Marian and I have in common besides our commitment to quality in the notary profession are our round purple stamps!

But you've gone too far (as you usually do) calling Barb25 "another FL witch." Very ill-timed. Her post yeserday in Leisure marking the death of her son was heartbreaking. She was a mother and a friend reaching out to us for support and kindness. Yet one day later, you stick it to her. Apologizing to Barb is the least you can do.

You can gloat all you want that you have the "best reads on the forum" while trying to drum up enrollment in your notary class. Buy some advertising. Better yet, spare the notary profession from your spawn and close your classes. Your arrogance is overwhelming (as it is in most of your daily windbag posts.) The only witch on this forum is you.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/21/12 12:20am
Msg #439444

Re: Well, since you asked, here I am!!!

"In fact the only thing Marian and I have in common besides our commitment to quality in the notary profession are our round purple stamps!"

Round purple stamps are very stylish, I must say.

My commission is renewing next month and I'm definitely getting another round seal, but thinking of going with a smaller Slim stamp instead of the Vision but NotRot only has the Slim in blue and black. The vision is great in purple, but it's a bit big and I was wanting to streamline a few of my stamps where possible. I'm going to have to ask if they can order the slim stamp in purple. I just love my purple stamp too much.

Reply by Clem/CA on 10/21/12 1:15am
Msg #439448

Re: Message Deleted

I was special once! Road the little yellow bus!

Reply by 101livescan on 10/20/12 10:17pm
Msg #439434

It is usually in with escrow, title, recording, etc. Sometimes it is "thrown" in with escrow.

Depends on the settlement agent.

Also, I would like to point out to everyone on this board that the escrow piece is not where settlement agents make their money, it is with CLTA and ALTA policies.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/20/12 10:44pm
Msg #439440

That's true, but that doesn't mean that people can't be concerned or wonder what, exactly, is covered by several hundred dollars of bundled fees and no itemizations to account for them.

From a borrower perspective, it does look weird...if you even pay attention.

Reply by Karla/OR on 10/20/12 11:25pm
Msg #439442

On the one I did tonight, it is listed in two places:

!) Estimated Borrower's Settlement Statement under Title Charges as: Mobile Signing Fee $175.00

2) HUD - under 1100. Title Charges as: Mobile Signing Fee $175.00

I also look for it with each signing and rarely see it on the HUD.

Reply by Kathy/NJ on 10/21/12 10:21am
Msg #439485

I've seen it listed as Notary fee for $25. Of course, I was getting paid $xxx.

Reply by 101livescan on 10/21/12 10:35am
Msg #439489

Interesting how the companies vary in how they "disclose" notary fees charged to the borrower/seller/buyer.

At one company I do work for, there is now an inhouse notary signing agent who completes a form, much like Chase's form.

She tally's the number of notarizations in every package she signs. Turns it into management. They must be doing some calculation of what they are charging the client and what they are "absorbing".

Remember yesterday I posted that settlement agents make most of their $$ on title fees, they are fixed based on the loan amount. I can't tell you how many people wrestle with this charge when they've refi'd numerous times and get this hit each and every time...they dubb it "highway robbery"...None the less, it is a legitimate charge.

How many times I've gone out to a client numerous times on the same file, forgot to get the interspousal grant deed signed. Need a subordination agreement signed, I have wracked up $400 on one file which started out as $150.

How is that all disclosed? It isn't! The co absorbs it, cost of doing business.

Also a lot of title/escrow companies also make money on such line items as: Flood Determination Report, Tax Report, Subescrow fee, yada yada...

So I'm not sure, but maybe it isn't their priority to list our notary fees every time. I would love to hear some of your views on this, especially those of you who have worked in escrow. One thing for sure is escrow is a lot different now than it was 10, even 5 years ago.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 10/21/12 12:59pm
Msg #439518

Why does CA have so many interspousal grant deeds? I don't

think I've ever seen one here in VA. In VA, if a person purchases property in his/her name only, even if married, they are the only one who signs docs. In CA does the non-owner spouse have to sign an interspousal grant deed every time the property is re-fi'd?

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/21/12 1:31pm
Msg #439524

I have never seen an "interspousal" n/m

Reply by dgd/CA on 10/21/12 1:38pm
Msg #439526

Re: Why does CA have so many interspousal grant deeds? I don't

This is a very question... CA is a community property state. If a spouse (for any reason) isn't going on title, they must sign the Inter-spousal Grant Deed. However; unless the non-obligated spouse was added to title at a later date, it's a one time occurrence. The deed becomes a part of the chain of title, and if the property were to be refinanced 1 or 10 times, no "repeated" action would be required of that individual (presuming, that during the course of refinance(s), the vested party has the same spouse )

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/21/12 3:40pm
Msg #439551

Re: Why does CA have so many interspousal grant deeds? I don't

Exactly. I'd just add that once an Interspousal Grant Deed is recorded, the other party holds title as "Sole and Separate" unless or until something else is recorded to change that. However, a person who is married can't hold title as "Sole and Separate" without recording the Interspousal - even if they owned the property alone before they got married.

Reply by dgd/CA on 10/21/12 4:06pm
Msg #439555

Agreed, should have stated such. n/m

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 10/21/12 2:18pm
Msg #439533

My response to Cheryl's questions

You said: “Remember yesterday I posted that settlement agents make most of their $$ on title fees, they are fixed based on the loan amount. I can't tell you how many people wrestle with this charge when they've refi'd numerous times and get this hit each and every time...they dubb it "highway robbery"...None the less, it is a legitimate charge.”

What is your definition of settlement agent? Are you referring to the escrow/title company or the individual agent that crunches number and prepares docs at the direction of buyer/owner/lender for the title/escrow company? The one creating the settlement statement, creating title/escrow docs, arranging for signing with buyer/owner/seller (whoever are the parties to the transaction) paying of liens, recording docs, disbursing funds? In Oregon, the individual agent is typically on salary plus bonus. Of course, title makes their money off the insurance. No one at title sells the lender/borrower on ALTA or other endorsements as those are lender requirements. (I can’t speak to cash purchase transactions and I have always worked for banks, credit unions, and mortgage lenders.)

You said: “ Also a lot of title/escrow companies also make money on such line items as: Flood Determination Report, Tax Report, Subescrow fee, yada yada...”

Would you please clarify? I know things can be done differently in other states but the HUD is the HUD no matter where you are and flood determination is in the Lender section. Are you seeing something in the title section for flood cert? Also, by tax report do you mean tax service? This too is a lender required fee. Title does not provide either of these services/reports and the lender does not make money on these as they are third party fees. Loan processor typically orders flood cert and tax service is engaged at closing at direction of lender. Both services are very much needed and don’t cost that much. Perhaps in your neck of the woods there is an additional tax report that I never see?

Regarding your request for views on the differences in escrow from the past. Yes, indeed, I do see differences. It’s pretty much the same as has been for years with local, in state title company fees-other than increases in insurance. The difference resulting in much higher fees to the borrower is the use of out-of-state title and settlement companies. Clearly, most loan officers are not informing the borrower that they have a choice for title/escrow services. Sure they sign a doc at closing to that effect but, duh, it’s a bit late for that—ya this is a pet peeve of mine. Even local bank branches are using national signing, title, and escrow services-costing the borrower more than is necessary. Most of the credit unions use local companies thus saving the borrower money over the banks. (Sure this is why we are all as busy as we are, but the customer service oriented LO in me still cringes.)

I also rarely see notary fee separated on the HUD but when I do it is way more than I am receiving most of the time.

PS. probably not new to you Cheryl, but for those that are interested in a description of tax service fees. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tax-service-fee.asp#axzz29xZyy44L

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/21/12 3:13pm
Msg #439541

Re: My response to Cheryl's questions

My thoughts too about tax service fee and flood cert fee..

Also, as to this "I can't tell you how many people wrestle with this charge when they've refi'd numerous times and get this hit each and every time...they dubb it "highway robbery"..."

If they've refi'd other times, they're getting a discount for the insurance if done within a certain period of time - sometimes 3 years, sometimes 10 years. Also, insurance is not only based on mortgage amount - at purchases it's based on Purchase Price if an Owners' policy is issued - and in my experience when an OP is issued the MP is free.

I'm not seeing notary fees on the HUD any more either. But the settlement companies charge a flat fee to process the file and the closing - maybe $350. $450, $600...depends - just keep in mind what the company has to do to get that file ready to close, through closing, and through post closing. They then pay US from those funds if not accounted for separately. They also make a percentage on the title insurance.

Reply by 101livescan on 10/21/12 3:31pm
Msg #439546

Re: My response to Cheryl's questions

No more discounts in CA for reduced title policy if you've done it once, twice or three times before. One flat fee. Some title companies charge more, other's less, but must be advertised and is not charged on a sliding scale. Based on loan value.

However, I'm seeing a lot of huge credits given by LO to incentize borrowers to refi with them over and over...they get paid the same from whomever they sell the loan to.

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 10/21/12 3:50pm
Msg #439553

interesting-3 yrs in Oregon n/m

Reply by 101livescan on 10/21/12 3:14pm
Msg #439542

Re: My response to Cheryl's questions

Here's what QUICKEN's website has to say about FLOOD DETERMINATION FEES.

Flood Certification Fee
Federal law requires that you obtain flood certification insurance if your property lies in a flood zone. As part of our evaluation of your property, we appoint a flood determination company to tell us whether or not your house is located in a flood zone. If your house is located in a flood zone, you will be required to purchase flood insurance. The flood certification fee that is issued to the client covers the cost of the assessment and is included in closing costs and fees.

And these flood determination companies issue the "determination form letter". Lenders incorporate this into their software queries.

So who owns the flood determination companies, many service providers are owned by title companies as their subsidiaries. That is why we have all these Affiliated Business Disclosures in lenders packages. They either own these companies or the title company may own them. Must be disclosed in any cas.

BoA owns a lot of these companies, check out their Affiiliated Business Disclosures, lots of companies listed there.

These days with all the new regulations since the meltdown, no additional fees can be added to the Settlement Sheet after the GFE is disclosed to borrower. Not like the Ninja loan days.

By settlement agencies, I mean escrow and title. It is the escrow agent, who at the final hour is pulling the HUD together wih lenders' processor, making sure everything is tight for the final number for cash to close or cash back...it gets narly here because many lenders have restrictions about no cash out or not to exceed a certain amount.

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 10/21/12 4:17pm
Msg #439558

ah ha, thought you meant agencies rather than agent :)

Quicken’s explanation a bit off: they say “Federal law requires that you obtain flood certification insurance if your property lies in a flood zone.” “Certification” should be left out of that sentence and “when financed” should be added to the end of the sentence.
I would imagine the reason for affiliated arrangements with flood determination companies is not money driven since the fee is around $10, 15 or so, but is more a quality control issue and maybe even for cost containment. Flood cert fees have been around for eons and serve a purpose and are people that concerned over this minimal charge? For the cert that is... If flood insurance is required then it is likely provided via BO homeowner ins, not always but most of the time, and does not line the pockets of the flood certifier company. Of course, we know about the lenders and title companies being in bed together but do the borrowers know? (rhetorical)

Reply by Carolyn Breckenridge on 10/21/12 2:01pm
Msg #439531

This is an interesting question. Usually, I do not see it broken out on the hud. I have a closing tomorrow morning. So, I thought I would take a look at the hud to see if it was on there. Sure enough it shows what the SS is collecting. I got the TC closing instructions when I got the package. They want fax/email documents back. This was not mentioned by the SS, so I excepted the fee based on what they usually pay. The SS is getting twice what they offerered me. Some how I don't think that is fair to the signing agent.

I have committed to my fee now, but I will think twice the next time before I accept their fee.

Reply by 101livescan on 10/21/12 3:02pm
Msg #439539

It's insane that these co's overlook the topic of faxbacks as they are assigning and we are accepting the signing.

So, I'm making sure I found out when they are trying to schedule, if there are fax backs and charging accordingly. If it is not a primary residence, it is mostl likely going to require faxbacks, sometimes the entire package. I think this is a huge oversight in defining the scope of work.

Faxbacks warrant an additional charge for sure.

Who is the lender, how many attachments, how many emails with attachments, are there more than two signers, distance, FAXBACKS required? POA signing? yada yada....

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 10/21/12 4:12pm
Msg #439556

agree-unknow fax backs=additional fee n/m