Posted by jgh/ca on 10/4/12 8:43pm
Msg #437223

authorized capacity in CA

Maybe this is venting or maybe I need some reinforcement here from CA notaries. I get a call today from a TX title co. about a Deed of Trust from an AZ property which I notarized the signature of a person and the property is in a trust. They told me they could not record because I did not put trustee after the name in my acknowledgement. I informed them that in CA we cannot add trustee after the name as that is not allowed in CA. She insisted that it needed to be there to record. She said that they have many notaries they use in CA and even if the property is in CA and in a trust that trustee must be after the name in the acknowledgement. I faxed here page 11 of the notary handbook about not putting any authorized capacity in our acknowledgements. I don't think I have heard the end of this as she stated all their CA notaries do this....has anyone else run into this??

Reply by Cam/CA on 10/4/12 8:57pm
Msg #437224

You are absolutely correct. You have sent evidence that CA notaries cannot acknowledge capacities, there is nothing more you can do other than give them the SOS telephone number.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 10/4/12 9:04pm
Msg #437225

So, I guess it won't be recorded, then.

I don't doubt there are plenty of dumba** CA notaries who will do whatever anybody tells them, but you are totally correct that we can't have"trustee" in our notarial certificates. Gawd, I'm so sick of: this won't record or this won't fund unless you do such and such, and everybody else does it so why don't you play ball? Grrr!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/4/12 9:11pm
Msg #437227

You were 100% right

You were right. We are 100% not allowed to address representative capacity in our certificates. No way, not ever. We do not have the legal authority to determine if somebody has the right to act in a certain capacity. Our certificates clearly note that the person is claiming to act in their authorized capacities, and we have to leave it at that.

Just because she *said* other notaries do it doesn't mean that its true. They always say stuff like that to guilt us in to doing things.

If she contacts you again, this is what I would do...

Remind her that California law states we are not allowed to determine or certify representative capacity of a signer. It's not some obscure notary law , either, its one of the BIG ones. You've already told her this and sent her proof, so she is aware that this against the law.

So all you need to do is send her a copy of page 36 of the current handbook, with the paragraph at the bottom marked... one of my favorites! Good 'ole 8225a:

"Any person who solicits, coerces, or in any manner influences a notary public to perform an improper notarial act knowing that act to be an improper notarial act, including any act required of a notary public under Section 8206, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."

I would then tell her that if she has any additional questions she needs to contact the Notary Public Section of the Secretary of State's Office at (916) 653-3595. Tell them she's welcome to give them your name and commission number if she'd like to file a complaint against you.

I guarantee you it will probably end right there.

Reply by Janet Heien on 10/4/12 9:29pm
Msg #437228

Re: You were 100% right

Thanks for all your positive feedback! It will help when they call back in the morning, because she said she wanted to do a conference call with AZ.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/4/12 9:52pm
Msg #437229

Re: You were 100% right

Sadly, there are a lot of notaries in California who don't know any better or feel threatened who do end up doing whatever someone asks them to do. As long as they get a check, they'll do whatever anyone tells them.

In some cases, Notaries think that because it is an acknowledgement going out of state, they can have it say whatever anyone wants...misinterpreting what our handbook tells us about that.

Or as GG said, some of them are just plain DAs....

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/5/12 12:49pm
Msg #437321

Re: You were 100% right...Janet, you are correct

here. Stand your ground; you should be proud of yourself.
Obviously we all stand with you on California notary law.
Stephanie

Reply by dgd/CA on 10/4/12 9:56pm
Msg #437230

Give me a break...

I am not here to quote law. Look to your handbook, I will not argue the Opinion Of Our SOS (unlike many, I believe that you are best served researching your handbook rather than my providing you with a link), allows and tolerates any and all Jurats; Acknowledgments; Signatures for Any State; Province or Territory that may vary from California, (providing said document[s] <RECORDS> outside of our state, presuming that it meets the law of said authority: blah, blah, blah). You spoke with the Title Company, if you challenged their opinion, and proved to be correct, the in-vocable penalties would be extreme.

Did it not occur to you to check the site of the governing authority of this State?

I have many signings under my belt for this state, in my humble opinion (probably not worth the argument I will receive), go back to the signers and correct this at your own expense (of course, be absolutely certain on your New Notarial Certificate that the date you perform this Act is current and correct [it's a Title requirement anddoes impact the loan documents]).

Mark it up as a "Lesson Learned" young-ling. May you prosper, gain knowledge and a wisdom from this.... :-)

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/4/12 9:59pm
Msg #437232

huh? n/m

Reply by Teresa/FL on 10/4/12 10:02pm
Msg #437233

Are you saying you would provide a new acknowledgement

with the Trustee capacity shown?

Reply by jgh/ca on 10/4/12 10:31pm
Msg #437236

Re: Give me a break...

Gov. authority of what state?? I follow the laws from my hanbdbook of the state I am doing the notarization in...I have done many signings where property is in another state and in a trust and have never had any problems....Your post does not make sense...

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 10/4/12 10:36pm
Msg #437237

Uhh... speaking of "posts not making sense." Try again n/m

Reply by CJ on 10/4/12 10:50pm
Msg #437238

Re: Uhh... speaking of "posts not making sense." Try again

"Young-ling"? Yoinks! Do you, per-chance, LARP? (I don't, but my kids do, and they talk like that.)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/4/12 11:00pm
Msg #437239

Re: Give me a break...

"I will not argue the Opinion Of Our SOS... allows and tolerates any and all Jurats;..."

Your grammar is a little bit hard to follow, so are you saying that any jurat from another state would be allowed? If so, that is not the case. Our handbook clearly states that "Any jurat taken within this state SHALL BE in the following form:" [caps are mine for emphasis] and it doesn't provide any exceptions.

I always do the same as the original poster and line out the trustee language or replace the entire certificate, since I believe it's prohibited by our state law.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/5/12 12:51pm
Msg #437323

Re: Give me a break...Obi Waannn.... n/m

Reply by doglover/CA on 10/4/12 11:31pm
Msg #437245

I have worked with loan packages that have the deed of trust acknowledgements preprinted with the borrower(s) name(s) followed by trustee where I would write "Not acceptable in CA" and filled out a loose acknowledgement with only the names of the borrowers. The title companies have not had a problem with that.

Also, I recall in the recent past some members have called the CA SOS regarding capacity and have posted here that the SOS office told them they write the name(s) of the the signer(s) and nothing else.

Reply by Sara Thornton on 10/4/12 11:57pm
Msg #437248

As others have posted, you are 100% correct. I had a title company last week, ask me to use my Acknowledgement as an AKA... They had pre-filled out all the different names this female borrower had used from previous marriages to maiden name. No can do, I heard grief, but they accepted my Acknowledgement for the name listed on here CA ID. Experienced Notaries must stick together, and stop the bullying of the new notaries that are maybe being intimidated and doing these notarization's.

Reply by dgd/CA on 10/5/12 8:09am
Msg #437265

Re: authorized capacity in CA...wow lol at myself...

I should not have been in such a hurry last evening to race off to a special showing of a movie. Not only did I quickly (and quite inadvertently) read the original post incorrectly, I did not peruse those which followed. Therefore, I do Stand Corrected. No, I would not certify capacity and apologize for my obvious error. I must state, I admire everyones passion. As I have now read all comments, I'm sure that the conference call taking place today will resolve the situation.

Reply by CJ on 10/5/12 9:57am
Msg #437282

Re: authorized capacity in CA...wow lol at myself...

I think we are all just picky and a post like yours gives us something to do.
Have a great day!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/5/12 1:33pm
Msg #437326

Re: authorized capacity in CA...wow lol at myself...

Thanks for adding a lighter note to this thread. And mega kudos to the poster who admitted a mistake! That takes some guts - and I respect that.

However, I think this discussion goes beyond just being picky. Some of us are painfully aware that there's a constant influx of new people coming to this board who read and are influenced by what's posted here. I recall very recently at least one situation where a new person appeared to be taking what I thought was questionable advice from someone who I believe hadn't been around much longer than that poster.

When someone is new, they might assume that anyone who posts with an authoritative tone knows what they're talking about and unfortunately, it ain't necessarily so... And we know that those posts will be end up in the archives as searchable info. As a result, many of us have developed a kind of knee-jerk reaction to try to correct whatever we perceive to be inaccurate info.

(BTW, this isn't intended in any way as a commentary on the abilities or experience of anyone in this thread, just a generic comment.)