Posted by LeeH/IN on 9/4/12 3:37pm
Msg #433082

Back dating

I know back dating is illegal. I was out of town for the week and came home to this request regarding a mtg signature I notarized 7/30. "The acknowledgement for the mtg that we had signed by your notary was missing the borrower's name. We believe just adding the borrower name to the acknowelgement page will not suffice since there is no real acknowledgement verbiage there. I am requesting that your notary supply us with a separate all purpose acknowledgement to correct this error. This is not your notary's fault, it just seems that when the document was created that it was missing the acknowledgment verbiage." The SS added, "Also, please use the original closing date."

Question: The Individual Acknowledgement states, on this date (original signing) Mr. X appeared before me ...& acknowledged that he executed the instrument...
Would this be back dating since he did appear before me and signed the Mtg on that date?

TIA

Reply by Patriot on 9/4/12 3:42pm
Msg #433083

Ultimately you are just providing proof he did sign on THAT date. This is just a new acknowledgment for the same item you already acknowledged, correct? If that is the case, then it is not back-dating.

Reply by Sha/CA on 9/4/12 3:57pm
Msg #433085

Re: It must be attached to the original document n/m

Reply by LeeH/IN on 9/4/12 3:58pm
Msg #433086

Yes, I was hoping that would be a correct interpretation. Thanks for responding.

Reply by John Tennant on 9/4/12 4:10pm
Msg #433088

Never supply a loose acknowledgement.

You have no idea where the loose acknowledgement is going to end up. The ack states Mr. x acknowledged his signature for the ack in your presence. Did he, if the acknowledgement ends up attached to another document. No.

JMHO

Reply by Roadie_MD on 9/4/12 4:14pm
Msg #433091

Re: Never supply a loose acknowledgement.

write the name of the document in the description--'mortgage', 'deed of trust', or whatever and you should be fine. I like to place my stamp on the same page as the signatures for a document where the acknowlegement or jurat is on a separate page, but that will not be possible unless they return the document to you. you can ask them to do this if it makes you feel more comfortable.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 9/4/12 4:15pm
Msg #433092

In AZ, the notary must supply the typical info on the

bottom of the loose ack such as: Name of document, number of pages, who else was involved in the transaction, etc. Not likely that this would end up stapled to somebody else's document.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 9/4/12 4:15pm
Msg #433093

LeeH/IN states "Question: The Individual Acknowledgement states, on this date (original signing) Mr. X appeared before me ...& acknowledged that he executed the instrument..." but LeeH does not indicate if that was the wording on the document as it existed on 7/30, or if that is the acknowledgement to be added. *IF* there was no acknowledgement wording on the document on 7/30, how do you know the signer acknowledged? Did you just ask him or her and remember, without writing it down anywhere?

Reply by VT_Syrup on 9/4/12 4:24pm
Msg #433096

Indiana notary manual

The Indiana notary manual says, in the Duties and Responsibilities section:

"A notary public shall at the time of signing the certificate of acknowledgement, oath, or instrument, append to the instrument the date of expiration of his/her commission, his/her county of residence, and the date the instrument was notarized."

The General Information section says:

"The Notary Public must list the following: ... Date notary is signing document to prove notary is active on date signed"

So even if the first quote allows you to take an acknowledgement on one day and fill out the certificate on a later day, the certificate is sure to raise red flags when you somehow put in both the date the signer acknowledged (7/30) and the date you signed (8/4).

Reply by JPH13/MO on 9/4/12 5:20pm
Msg #433112

Differing Dates s/b okay IF...

Back when I was new I missed notarizing one doc and was allowed to go back with a new version of the doc. Borrower had to use the original date he signed the old version but I was allowed to use the current date to notarize it. My other option would have been to use a bad copy of the original and notarize it in the borrower's presence, but he preferred to sign a new one and leave the old date in. The key is to see what your state rules are, as you may need to at least do the notarization in front of the borrower.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 9/4/12 5:47pm
Msg #433116

Re: Differing Dates s/b okay IF...

It's always been fine in every state I know of for the signer to sign on one date, and then bring the document, acknowledge it, and have the notary fill out the certificate of acknowledgement on a later date. Whether it's OK for the signer to sign on the later date but write the earlier date by his/her signature would depend on the state, but it wouldn't be obvious on the face of the document that there might be a problem.

But I've never seen acknowledgement wording that allowed the notary to explain that the signer acknowledged on an earlier date but the notary filled out the certificate on a later date. Someone would have to create some special acknowledgment wording to cover that case, and strange wording like that will probably create a problem, even if it's technically legal.

Reply by MikeC/TX on 9/4/12 10:54pm
Msg #433139

"We believe just adding the borrower name to the acknowelgement page will not suffice since there is no real acknowledgement verbiage there."

There's your answer - if there was no "real acknowledgment verbiage there", there was no notarial certificate, and the notarization was not done properly. I don't know what it was you signed and stamped, but if they are admitting that the acknowledgment wording was missing from the document (if so, how did you not see that?), what they're asking you to do now goes beyond backdating - they're asking you to add an acknowledgment that you never took properly, after the fact. That's probably illegal in every state.

Reply by lindetteh_PA on 9/4/12 11:37pm
Msg #433144

I'm surprised at how many notaries are telling you this is OK. I agree with Mike if the original document didn't have the acknowledgment verbiage and you just signed and sealed without it how a redraw is in order. Also you or anyone else that does what they are asking has no idea what they are attaching your acknowledgement to. What if they are changing the wording within the document and not the title? Notaries have a responsibility to protect the people we say came before us and signed docs. A quick fix could land you in hot water later especially if the acknowledgement ends up on a different mortgage than you left with the borrower, and you have no way of knowing if it will. Or do you think there are no liars and cheats in the mortgage industry. One other quick point If they have already admitted it's not your fault why not get the extra trip; I mean we are in business to make MONEY not make life easier for people who didn't do their job correctly.