Posted by Mike Goodey on 9/29/12 7:48pm
Msg #436516

Commission renewal

Anyone who has had their commission renewed by taking the Not Rot online class and test, how do you get the live scan form? How does the test for the state work when you haven't paid for the state for it? Sorry, last time I renewed, I ended up taking the 6 hour class in a class setting. I would rather take it online, but am concerned because there is no on to ask ( I'm guessing) if there are questions about who to contact for this or that. Thanks.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/29/12 7:51pm
Msg #436519

Re: Commission renewal ~ 6-Hour CLass?!

I think I'm beginning to appreciate practicing in a Self-certifying state (:

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/29/12 8:21pm
Msg #436520

Mike, that's easy. BTW, the steps are listed here:
http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/checklist.htm


First, you register for the exam directly through CPS:

Visit CPS at notary.cps.ca.gov or
Call CPS at (916) 263-3520.


BTW... it is very possible to show up to one of the "closed" exams and get in. On the day I took my exam over half the people scheduled didn't show up and there were three people who were able to pop in and take it. You pay them the exam and application fees right there. You do NOT pay the fingerprint fees there.

In about 10 days, you'll get an email with your exam results. If you pass, then hightail to get your prints done.

Then you just download the livescan form from the Sec of State site here:

http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/forms/notary_livescan.pdf

You can find a place to get them done from here:
http://ag.ca.gov/fingerprints/publications/contact.php

(It will cost you anywhere from $64 to $80 for the fingerprints)

Once that's done.... then you wait. The next you hear from anyone will likely be about 30 days before your commission expires (provided you started to process early enough). You'll either get a new commission package or a letter with further instructions.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/29/12 8:31pm
Msg #436521

BTW... when you go take the exam, do NOT forget to bring your passport photo and course completion certificate with you.

The application is here: http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/forms/notary_app.pdf

Read the directions on page 1. It's pretty self explanatory.

If your forget the photo or certificate, they will probably still let you take the exam, but then you'll get a nasty letter from the Sec of State saying they won't process your file until you submit the documents. DO yourself a favor and just don't forget them to being with. When I took my exam a few months back, you would NOT BELIEVE some of the excuses and dumb looks I saw on peoples' faces as they were checking in for the exam. They forgot or "didn't realize" they needed this or that. One guy was taking the exam 3 days before his previous commission was expiring... AND he didn't bother to get his photo taken. Seriously, I couldn't figure out how some of those people managed to to drive themselves to the exam site. A lot of them had exam retake vouchers with them, too, meaning they'd already failed it at least once.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 9/29/12 9:22pm
Msg #436526

I teach people to pass the exam in CA.

1. Get your fingerprints taken immediately ( the prints are good for your 4 year term) but in particular they are good for 6 months, so you would have to fail the exam 6 months in a row for your prints to be retaken.

2. It takes 15 business days ( Sat, Sun and federal holidays don't count) to find out your test results and they want your email address on the top right part of your notary application to email you the results.

3. Bring a passport type photo with you to the testing site.

4. The state will not accept a "handwritten check and this is a check you get when you open up a new checking account and you have to write in your information because nothing is pre-printed. The state only takes checks and money orders (no credit cards or cash).

5. Always show up for the testing site even if it says the site is full. As Marian said half the
people that signed up don't show. One proctor told me a few years ago that they have never had to send a person away because there wasn't any room. Best idea, although, is to secure a place and be sure you have a seat for the test.

The company I teach for has the state proctors come in at the end of the class and give the test to students, so that is very convenient for most students/renewing notaries.

6. Bring pencil, fill your application out in ink (not pencil) and it must be blue or black; we had an application returned because the student filled it out in red ink.

One suggestion I tell my class is to put their name on the back of their photo so it always be hooked up with your application.

Also, while the student's phone number is optional and I always tell them to put their cell number in that line.
I had a issue with my soc security number when I renewed in 2010 and we cleared it up with one phone call from the Sec of State.
It looks like it is taking around 8-9 weeks to become a new notary from the day you take the test.
Renewing notaries get their commissions in the mail 30 days before the commission expires.
Hope this helps?

Reply by Mike Goodey on 9/29/12 9:32pm
Msg #436529

So, let me get this right...even if I take the online course at, say Not Rot, I have to go to a classroom to take the state test just like before when I had renewed my commission except this time I'm not sitting there in the classroom withfellow notaries until it's time for the state test.

Reply by Mike Goodey on 9/29/12 9:33pm
Msg #436531

And, thank you all for your expertise.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/29/12 9:40pm
Msg #436532

Well, yes... but it's only for a short time, and...if you ask me... you retain the information better if you're forced to study on your own rather than take the exam immediately after a day long class. It will make you a better notary.

I've never taken a large in-person class, and I never will. I realize everyone learns differently. But I've always felt that even if you take an in person class, you should be required to wait a period of time before being allowed to take the written exam. It forces you to study and commit things to memory rather than your short term memory just long enough to pass the exam.

No offense to Joan and the other instructors like her, of course... I've just always felt the one-day, wham-bam, thank you ma'am approach to obtaining your commission produces less than knowledgeable notaries.

ANd I think we can use the hoardes of xyz seminar trained notaries to illustrate that.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/29/12 9:33pm
Msg #436530

"I teach people to pass the exam in CA."

Joan.... Can I tell you that has always bugged me? Why not teach people how to be NOTARIES? Passing the exam is fine, but...and especially for the new notaries... by the time they get their commissions, there is very little retention of information.

I cannot tell you how many calls I get from new notaries who are researching the internet for answers to simple things because they forgot what to do from class and are scared to mess up. And I don't even get paid to help them!

Passing the exam is fine... but what about the next 4 years and keeping these people out of jail for making bonehead mistakes?

Reply by 101livescan on 9/29/12 9:52pm
Msg #436537

Marian you are absolutely right. I tell new notaries to re-read their study guide, do a mock notarization with a family member or friend. Make sure you understand the acknowledgement or journal, what a POA is and what are all the basic duties of a notary.

By the time a new notary receives their oath, bond, seal and commission, it's been several months since they passed the test and don't remember a thing about the class.

I completely understand a new person not knowing the first thing about this responsibility. I advocate people testing themselves on the material they received in their class, and not be afraid to ask questions about what they should be doing in a real-life situation.

Good point, Marian.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/29/12 11:48pm
Msg #436547

That's pretty much what I do, as well. Point them to official resources.

Reply by bfnotary on 10/1/12 9:45am
Msg #436604

here in pa, it is too easy to become a notary. 3 hour course, in either classroom or online. And that is pretty much it. To pass the course I had to take an exam. That was the only exam. I did the 3 hour online course and took the test, passed and waited on school to do rest, (send me my bond and courthouse instructions)....To be honest, when I got my commission, my first thought was ok, now what?

I didn't know anything. There are still things I am learning. The only things I know very well are loan signings. I have done a couple wills and over 200 loans now. But I do not agree with there not being an exam in a physical location. I think that would have helped me in the beginning tremendously. I am ok now tho. If I am unsure of something, I find the answer. And that is happening not very often now.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/29/12 10:54pm
Msg #436544

<<I cannot tell you how many calls I get from new notaries who are researching the internet for answers to simple things because they forgot what to do from class and are scared to mess up. And I don't even get paid to help them!>>

Just be careful what you tell them and how you help them. It's not unlikely they may misinterpret or misunderstand your sage advice or dutiful instructions and will be calling you back, blaming their missteps on what they contend you told them. If these people were in a class, as you say, I'd be telling them to call their instructor.

We all, of course, want to be helpful and can be to a large extent, similar to what we do on NR. But to offer phone advice to a struggling CA newbie has its risks. But at least they're asking questions!

Reply by CJ on 9/30/12 12:08am
Msg #436550

My 2 cents.

I agree with the person who said to get your fingerprints taken right away. They take a while to process, so you may as well get it going.

When I took the test, there were lots of questions about fines. When my friend took it, there were no questions about fines. This was confusing to me, so I asked the Secretary of State people about it. They explained to me that they change the test every month and the person teaching the test does not know exactly WHAT is going to be on THIS particular test.

Now, when I take the test, I study a month beforehand, and memorize everything in the handbook. I put LOTS of questions on flashcards and drill myself until I have it down. Then, it does not matter what the class teaches, I'm covered and ready for the test.

I can't imagine that there is a way to take the test on line. They were so particular about putting purses in the back and watching us to make sure that we didn't cheat in any way. You can't do that on line.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/30/12 12:42am
Msg #436556

Re: My 2 cents.

The required *class* can be taken online, but the actual exam is always administered live by a proctor hired by the SOS. This can be done either right after an authorized in-person exam where they've arranged for the proctors to be there after the class or you can sign up (or show up and hope for the best) for one of the exam-only sessions organized by the company that's contracted with to do the proctoring of the exams. (Is it CPS? Regardless, the schedule and other details are available online.)

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 9/30/12 2:17am
Msg #436561

Marian
Don't read too much into my statement about passing our state exam. I always spend hours of the class teaching them how to fulfill their notary obligations in the state of CA.

I don't know why you would say you would never attend a notary class in person?

Come to one of my classes and you will realize that our students definitely know how to notarize signatures and what their obligations are to become a CA notary. They know exactly what a Jurat & Ack is/etc.

I teach in San Bernardino, Anaheim, Pasadena, Ontario, LAX.

I think a lot of CA notaries would like to hear your opinion about CA classes and I think you should attend one before you make a comment on the quality of notary classes in CA.

Give me a call 951-522-4919.

Wow I am up late watching the golf Ryder Cup I recorded.

Reply by sueharke on 9/30/12 11:35am
Msg #436572

I'm one of the students who does not do well in a live class, unless I can record it and play back again. I need to hear the information at least twice to clearly understand the information. Also, I do not learn well from reading material, I need to hear it. I suggest a class where the live information is given and sell an audio or video copy for a fee for those who want or need to rehear the material.

This is why I choose to take the online course and study in a way that I learn best.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/30/12 7:42pm
Msg #436585

I was Joan's student

I took her live class in 2007 and loved it! She has a great sense of humor and told funny stories from her experiences. She also gave a lot of tips that she learned through trial and error - something you cannot get from an online class. When I renewed my commission last year, I looked to sign up for Joan's class at the same location of 2007 class but she was teaching somewhere near LAX on the day I chose. I also took the loan signing workshop she co-taught with Kelly Robertson. Also an excellent class for those who do not have a real estate background.

Personally, I prefer live classes to online courses. When I took my real estate courses, I took them all at the local community college (over the course of 2.5 years) rather than online. Between the notary class and real estate classes, I had the opportunity to gain valuable networking colleagues - something else you cannot get from an online course. Live classroom courses work better for me - online classes don't.

BTW: Testamonial is completely voluntary - no compensation or bribery involved ;-).

Reply by sueharke on 9/30/12 10:11pm
Msg #436588

Re: I was Joan's student/learning issues

Hey, I understand I would love to take only live classes and not have to hear the same material more than once, but it is not my lot in life (I remember the issue as a child before these great learning tools such as video cameras, iphones to take pictures of what the instructor writes on the board, software that will convert written documents to MP3 to listen to in a car of ipod- I use them all).

As long as I can remember I have had issues learning in live classes (at the community college I was allowed to use a tape recorder in class for my own use to play back later). It is hard to write notes when concentrating on the last sentence and the teacher is saying something more important. Then matching the notes to the handout and remember why I wrote them down.

I have found that the use of tape recorders, video taping by students who need the extra help is discouraged for copyright protection of the presenter. I agree with this. I also agree that students who need the extra learning material should sign a nondisclosure agreement and pay an extra fee as a royalty for the right to the individual use.

I have sat in classes for other students (friends and my spouse) and the instructor allowed the use of the tape recorder. I just wrote whatever the teacher wrote on the board and gave my friend the tape to hear and any handouts from the instructor. It was his or her responsibility to fill-in the blanks for his or her needs.

Joan: Is there an available compromise for students like me who have unique needs in the live classes you teach? I live in Sacramento and attending your class is not possible, but maybe another experienced live teacher in my area may make such an agreement?

Until then, it is online courses for me.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/1/12 12:03am
Msg #436592

Re: I was Joan's student/learning issues

I hope nobody gets me wrong. I'm not saying I don't like live classes, that's not it at all. I think everyone learns differently and live classes are very important. I, personally, don't always do well that way. I prefer self paced study and research. I get impatient and bored in live classes - I've always been that way, even when I was a child.

I just have always kind of been bugged by the marketing idea of teaching to pass an exam rather than to become a notary. That's it. I get the reasoning behind using the approach.... most people, when taking the class want some kind of guarantee that they'll get past the exam.

AND... and I don't apologize for this, even with the live, in-person class, I do not believe students should be allowed to take the exam immediately afterward. I've never been silent on that, and it's just my opinion. It's not because method of delivery of the class... but because of the time needed to retain the information learned. When you take a 6-hour class immediately followed by a 30 question exam...of course you're probably going to do pretty well. The information is fresh. But when you're done, there is ZERO reason for you to retain the information once you leave.

So, it doesn't matter how great the teacher or the information is during the class, basic statistics and brain science tell us that the information simply isn't retained, nor is there an incentive for retention. By requiring a period of time between course completion and the exam, it creates an incentive and forces improved information retention. My opinion is that it would greatly improve the quality of the notaries passing exams. Right now we get people passing... but they still don't have a clue what they're doing.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 10/1/12 1:20pm
Msg #436647

Re: I was Joan's student/learning issues

We have available for all CA notary students on our homepage a link called Student Services that has many helpful information links.
These are listed on the left side and are not password protected.

1. free webnair on how to fill out a CA Ack & Jurat correctly. This is very helpful for new notaries because it will be 6-8 weeks before you receive your commission and will make them much more confident to do notary work.

2. Also there are fillable Ack and Jurat forms and the password is notaryclasses

3. free invoice forms

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/1/12 5:50pm
Msg #436691

Re: I was Joan's student/learning issues

"basic statistics and brain science tell us that the information simply isn't retained"

Correct! It's the difference between info being retained in short-term memory vs. being processed and retained in long-term memory, which I believe even involve different parts of the brain. I've read that a lot of that process happens during sleep...

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 10/1/12 12:04am
Msg #436593

Re: I was Joan's student/learning issues

We do teach in Sacramento (not me) and call our office and talk to Dan Jones (owner) 1-800-873-9865.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/1/12 1:13pm
Msg #436645

Joan - you are so thorough. Thank you. Stephanie n/m

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/1/12 1:26pm
Msg #436648

I took a live class arranged right here on Notary Rotary.

The Proctors, from CPS HR Consulting, gave the exam approx. 20-30 minutes asfter class ended. It was very well organized.
Whether it is an online class or a live class, we are fortunate to have the options to best suit each of us.

Stephanie

Reply by rengel/CA on 10/1/12 11:45am
Msg #436626

When my previous commission expired in Feb 2008, I took the renewal class in Nov 2007. There were MAJOR changes to California notary law taking effect on Jan 1, 2008. They could not teach those laws, they had to teach the laws that were in effect in 2007. They did not even tell the students that there were major changes to the law starting in Jan or to check with the SOS to learn the new laws. So, we had a large number of new notaries back who were still going by the 2007 notary laws. Totally oblivious that major changes had taken place. I wonder how many of them used "personal knowledge" to ID folks?

This is why "teach to pass the class" doesn't always work.

My .02