Posted by PegiT_MN on 9/17/12 10:13am
Msg #434710

General Notary Work Incident

I received a call yesterday morning from a gentleman looking for a notary that could come out on a Sunday and notarize a bunch of paperwork for him and his wife. He apologized for calling me to come out on a Sunday but his mother had passed away and her home was being sold, her estate was being settled, and there was a lot of paperwork which needed to be notarized right away.....probably about eight signatures for him and eight for his wife. No problem I told him.....I could come over to their home and help them take care of everything. Then he informs me that there might be one slight problem......he signed one of the pages already. Well that's not looking so good I told him......I won't be able to notarize that page. Then he informs me that he actually signed all of the pages........and his wife had signed all of her pages too. Well now that's a problem I told him. I would not be able to help them out. So the guy proceeds to plead his case......all of the other siblings already signed and their parts were notarized and if I don't come and do this they are going to have to start all over......and then I hear the wife in the background yelling at him to get the notary to come over and get this done so they don't have to start over. Finally I tell the guy....."I don't think you understand me.......you are asking me to break the law and jeopardize my notary commission by notarizing 16 signatures that I did not witness and I am not willing to do that for you or for anyone else". He then said "I promise I won't tell anyone". I just hung up on him.

I'm just wondering if he let his siblings know that they messed up the paperwork or if he kept calling notaries. And I wonder if he was able to find a notary to do it.

Reply by jojo_MN on 9/17/12 10:18am
Msg #434712

I believe you could have had them just sign their names a second time above or next to each signature.

Reply by SharonMN on 9/17/12 11:33am
Msg #434726

Agree with other posters:
ACK - they don't have to sign in front of you, as long as they APPEAR in front of you.
JURAT - Just have them sign again above the first signature and notarize away.

Reply by Kendall Challenger on 9/17/12 12:17pm
Msg #434733

I agree with Sharon and the others. There are ways that you could have remedied this situation and saved everyone involved a lot of grief.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/17/12 10:18am
Msg #434713

If it's the same as it is in Florida, if it was an ack on all the paperwork you could have done it - acknowledgements don't require that the signer sign in front of the notary. You can just have them re-acknowledge that they signed. Jurats do require they sign in front of the notary (here in Florida)

Now...after that's said - I'd have gone and done it - just have them sign again in front of you right above their previously applied signature..everyone's happy

Reply by Gregory/CA on 9/17/12 10:24am
Msg #434714

I agree with JoJo and Linda n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 9/17/12 10:38am
Msg #434721

I think you need to adjust your profile now. n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 9/17/12 10:43am
Msg #434722

Why would you just hang up on him? as the others have said, here in AZ they can sign before i get there, just have to sign my journal in front of me. They can also just resign the paperwork in front of me. You need to read your state handbook.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/17/12 11:29am
Msg #434725

I don't know anything about your state's laws; still, I thought it was universally acknowledged that nobody has to actually sign in front of a notary in order for the notary to complete an ack. They could have signed 20 years ago, as long as when they appeared before you, they confirm that it is indeed their signature on the document. In CA, they don't have to re-sign; tho it's my observation that the receiving agency usually wants them to anyway. And, of course, if there's a jurat, they need to sign again after you do the oath.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 9/17/12 11:44am
Msg #434727

Minnesota Law States that

.....the requirements for notarizations are that they are competent to sign, they provide current identification, and that they must sign the document in your presence. I asked the Secretary of Sate's office about attaching an acknowledgement page and I was told that there is no guarantee that it will even be accepted. I explained the situation to them and I was told that I absolutely did the right thing by not notarizing the documents that had already been signed.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 9/17/12 11:51am
Msg #434729

Re: Minnesota Law States that

So then, resigning the docs in front of you is not illegal? I would have done that. There are no guarantees on anything in life. I could drop dead 5 minutes from now. I have had them resign docs (in AZ and CA) and i never had a problem

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/17/12 12:03pm
Msg #434730

Re: Minnesota Law States that

Well, that's the nuttiest thing I've ever heard of. Doesn't MN even have subscribing witness laws? In any case, whatever ....

Reply by jojo_MN on 9/17/12 12:30pm
Msg #434734

From the Minnesota Sec. of State website:

Acknowledgment in an Individual Capacity - A statement by a person that he or she has executed an instrument for the purposes stated therein. The signer must personally appear, acknowledge that he or she willingly and knowingly signed the document, and the notary must identify him or her as the one who did indeed sign. The signature may be made before, but not after, the notarization. Note: The document may already be signed - the notary does not have to witness the signature just determine if the signer was the one who did it.
Typical Documents:
- Documents to be placed in the public record
- Real estate documents: mortgages, deeds, satisfactions, etc.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 9/17/12 12:49pm
Msg #434736

Re: From the Minnesota Sec. of State website:

Some document transactions require that the signer make a formal declaration before a notary, thereby “acknowledging” execution (signing) of the document. Specifically, the signer verbally acknowledges that:

• The signer understands the contents and purpose of the document;
• The signature is his/her own
• The document was signed willingly (no coercion)

Documents typically requiring an acknowledgment are contracts, deeds, agreements, powers of attorney, etc. These documents contain terms to which the signer is agreeing.

Documents requiring acknowledgment can be signed earlier than or at the time of notarization. Either way, the signature must clearly be an original one, stroked directly onto the paper with “wet” ink (ballpoint, rollerball, etc.).

If the document presented to the notary is unsigned, the notary should have the signer sign the document prior to administering the verbal ceremony (see below).

Having ensured that all the required elements for lawful notarization are present (see bullets below), the notary will verbally ask the signer the following or similar:

“Do you acknowledge or declare that you understand this document and have signed it voluntarily for the purposes stated in it?”

The signer will reply “Yes.” The notary will then complete the notarial act by filling out his/her notarial certificate, then signing and sealing the certificate.

Reply by 101livescan on 9/17/12 1:42pm
Msg #434742

I hope that for the client's convenience, he found a notary who knows the law better and he was not put to all the agony of getting everyone together again. May be time to get out your State's notary handbook and re-read what you can and cannot do. In CA we can notarize if a document has already been signed by the client. He simply signs next to it or over it in your presence. It is legal to do this in CA.

Reply by NJDiva on 9/17/12 1:50pm
Msg #434744

Pegi has no problem admitting she takes lowball fees...

hmmmm! That pretty much explains it...