Posted by Karla/OR on 9/28/12 12:40am
Msg #436233

Have questions re signing today . . .

I'll preface my questions with details of signing because it was difficult at best: arrived a few minutes early - husband home - wife will arrive in a few minutes - he asked if we could start signing as wife is a surgeon & has to be to work at 6. No problem - entered his journal info and then started signing. Wife 10 minutes late and not friendly, very negative personality. Yes, they were in a hurry to sign so wife could get back to work but she scrutinized every page I handed her!! I started explaining the docs but they just wanted to sign and get back to work so I just started handing docs to them without explanation each time each one was done with a doc - then she inferred that I didn't know where they should sign. My blood pressure was soooo rising. She got the lender contact on the phone, she wasn't happy that her original guy was not available, said they were not supposed to pay "points" and to cancel the loan as they would go elsewhere. She picked up her keys, wallet, and cell phone and walked out to go to work. It was such a lovely time!! :O)

I decided it was a win/lose situation, but a lesson learned - I should have taken control of the signing and stated to them that hurrying through the docs could cause an error & prevent recording and if we need to re-schedule then so be it.

Now to my questions:

1) do you leave the BO copy of docs in a situation like this when the BO does not want to finish the signing and says to cancel it?

2) Line 303 of HUD was blank - so the doc that says "Refund (Proceeds) due to BO at Closing" and Funds due to BO" is just left blank, right????

3) This signing was for BO's property in Texas (I'm in Oregon) - there was a doc that had a heading of "BO Closing Affidavit" with the notary section showing "State of Texas" and "County of Galveston." The signature line had "Notary Public State of Texas." I changed it to OREGON info as that is where I am signing. Am I correct or am i missing something here?

I appreciate your answers as a learning tool for future signings (since this signing was cancelled).

Thanks for "listening."

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/28/12 1:07am
Msg #436236

1. Absolutely not. Pack up EVERYTHING and go home. Even if they want you to leave stuff, don't.

2. Not sure what you mean. If the HUD line is blank, it's blank. Often this is the case on the lender HUD. Not your worry. What did the title company HUD say? That's the one that lists funds going in and out. Was it blank, too? Weird.....

3. You were correct to change the ack. Are you saying you changed only the signature line on the BO Closing Affidavit ack? You also should have changed State of Texas to State of Oregon and County of Galveston to your county. The venue on any ack/jurat is where your little patootie is at the time of signing, not where the property is. It might have been better to attach an OR ack rather than fiddle around with the Texas one, trying to make all the corrections to venue, etc.

Just cos they were rushing through the docs, doesn't mean you had to lose control of the signing. And I wouldn't ever tell a B that rushing can lead to errors, cos that ain't necessarily true. Perhaps you need to condense your presentation to one sentence per page instead of encyclopedic explanations of each doc. (Not saying you do, just a suggestion).

Starting a signing with one B only means that when the tardy B shows up, you have to start all over again. There are some things you can do to get the ball rolling... like logging in the first B in your journal, gathering the check for funds due, or filling out the form for proceeds due; also the SOI if it's in there. Other than than, politely say you all have to wait for the second B to show up... it's not your fault she was late. They confirmed the appt. time and needed to be responsible for their time management, not you.

Reply by Karla/OR on 9/28/12 1:36am
Msg #436239

1. Got it - take everything! :O)

2. I should have said Line 303 of the "A Settlement Statement (HUD-1) First American Title Company-NTP Settlement Statement." I am going to go over the docs tomorrow and look at that again to see the difference between the title and lender HUD's. We only got so far into the docs before she walked out. Line 303 on this doc IS blank!

3. I changed everything that indicated Texas to that of Oregon (state, county, and under the signature line to Notary Public, State of Oregon.

I do spell out the least amount of verbiage I can when introducing a doc. I usually just read the heading and if it doesn't have a heading, I quickly read the 1st paragraph to see what it says. It was so frustrating because she was almost to the point of rude, wanted me to rush, but it was okay that she took her time reading. AAARRRGGHHH!

Thanks for the insight about only one of the BO's being there - will use that suggestion.

Thanks GOLDGIRL - your info has been most helpful.

Karla

Reply by CopperheadVA on 9/28/12 5:23am
Msg #436242

A couple of months ago I was treated so rudely by a borrower (the wife of a husband/wife couple). If the closing had not been for my best client, I think I would have walked out. She was beyond rude to me in every way, and I was trying to kill her with kindness. She was also constantly jumping up from the table to answer her work email because she was so important and apparently I was not. I had to ask her husband twice to have her come back so we could finish up. I wrote a little more about it in Msg #433689.

Like I said - it was for my best client who sends me a lot of business and so I just was nice as pie and got through it. But if it had been for one of the large, lower pay national TC's then I would have packed up and left.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 9/28/12 8:49am
Msg #436260

Won't take signed deed

A deed takes effect when it is delivered, not when it is signed. When the signer gives it to me with the expectation that the deed will be returned to the lender/title company/etc. it is delivered. I won't accept delivery of a deed that the signer does not intend to be effective. Instructions from the party that hired me be darned.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 9/28/12 9:10am
Msg #436268

When can an acknowledgement be revoked?

So a singer signs some documents in a package, and acknowledges them, but before finishing the whole package, decides not to go through with the loan. The company that hired the notary wants the notary to return the package. So can the signer revoke his acknowledgement and demand to keep the documents? Does it make a difference if the notary hasn't completed the certificates yet? If the notary lets a completed acknowledgement certificate out of his hands after the signer has told him he doesn't want to complete the deal, has the notary issue a false certificate?

Reply by Luckydog on 9/28/12 11:15am
Msg #436289

NEVER leave them anything. Happened to me 2 nights ago. If title wants them to have the docs, they can email them directly. You are responsible for them, and too bad if they do not like it. Who is to say they take that package, get it notarized, and then you have an issue why you left them docs nd they have oribinals floating around out there. They do not belong to the buyer until they sign everything. Just pack up and leave.

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 9/28/12 6:39am
Msg #436245

1.) The lender usually states that if they don't sign to take both copies.
2.) No money due from borrower/no money due to borrower
3.) You are to attach your own loose leaf jurat/ack or change the incorrect info and initial it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/28/12 7:34am
Msg #436251

I agree with Janet as to #2

and person at title just too lazy to drop the -0- down.

My only other thought is - are you sure you had the final HUD?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/28/12 7:49am
Msg #436256

oops...err..duh...I agree with Jennifer.. :) n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 9/28/12 8:56am
Msg #436264

Disagree - still don't know if final and/or only HUD in pkg.

Not enough info to conclude.

Reply by jojo_MN on 9/28/12 9:04am
Msg #436265

1) No copy left with borrower on no-signs unless directed by TC or LO.
2) If blank, then no money due or from the borrower

3) Change all venues in your notary block to where you are sitting at the time the document is signed, or attach your own certificate.

Whenever there is an additional borrower coming after signing begins, I usually place the documents he/she has to sign in a different orientation on the stack of signed papers. Then, when the absent signer appears, all I need to do is flip over the stack and have him/her sign the documents that need his/her signature. When all are signed, I obviously flip thru the package to ensure there are no missing signatures/initials. Has always worked for me and the second signer only takes around five minutes to sign all docs.

Reply by Eve/VA on 9/28/12 10:06am
Msg #436277

I agree with 1 -3 of the above.

And, in a perfect world, the last paragraph sounds great. The part about the late signer taking around five minutes to sign all the docs? That part. Has rarely happened to me. The usual scenario is the late signer has to have everything explained in painstaking detail to catch up. Not to mention the reiteration of the sops -- blue ink, oath swearing, etc.

So, I don't start one signing twice. I'll be patient, not cop an attitude. I'll do prep work to stall for time. But start without all signers? Nope. My time is as valuable as theirs. : )

Reply by bfnotary on 9/28/12 12:06pm
Msg #436306

It has only happened to me once so far. The guy was late. He was coming back from out of state and was held up in traffic. He was about 20 minutes late. The wife and I were just finishing up, and he literally took 5 minutes or less to sign them all. He didn't look at anything, didn't want me to explain anything. He said his wife was handling everything. He was just signing.

Reply by Eve/VA on 9/28/12 12:31pm
Msg #436315

Perfect ... wish they all were like that. : ) n/m