Posted by LKT/CA on 9/8/12 1:24pm
Msg #433650
Let's address being told to "shut up"
Msg #433617 is the post in question. My response to that post is Msg #433644
When you have NO counterargument to a statement and only strike out at posters personally, the attacks show that you are unprofessional, childish, and lack character. Therefore, grow up and learn to respond to the ISSUE.
If don't know how to engage in constructive debate, enroll in a speech/communications class and gain skills in that area. Otherwise, save your breath as NO one cares what you think of them personally. There, I said it!!!!!
| Reply by BrendaTx on 9/8/12 3:25pm
Msg #433654
LKT - one thing that I enjoy about you is
that you do not take things personally.
We have vehemently agreed about about couple of issues, but I respect your position. I feel that the reason the world stays on its axis is because there are the left/right, pros/cons, and ups/downs. It keeps things in balance.
Saw a quote today that went something like, "The person that I learn from is the one who I do not agree with."
| Reply by Barb25 on 9/8/12 4:37pm
Msg #433663
A great quote, Brenda, but only if you have an open mind. n/m
| Reply by LKT/CA on 9/8/12 4:54pm
Msg #433664
Thank you, n/m
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 9/8/12 9:19pm
Msg #433699
Uncalled for behavior, and it seems that every time the
topic of California journal entries comes up, it becomes a big issue.
The SOS has given their interpretation. They say that each notarization should have its own line. Based on my interpretation of California laws, I agree with their assessment.
There are many notaries on this board who like to do the bare minimum. Some of us prefer to take the extra precautions, myself included. I had a notary recently make a nasty comment because I use an embosser, which is not required by Florida law. I use an embosser every time. I have given many reasons why I prefer to do so. I comply strictly with Florida law and I try others to do the same.
Marian, you have said many times that you don't fancy yourself an expert - I disagree. You ARE an expert. You have heavily researched the issue and determined that California law requires you to record every notarial act on a separate line in your journal. Clearly, that is what the Secretary of State wishes notaries to do. If there are notaries that choose to disregard the mandates of the SOS: firstly, shame on them; secondly, be cautious - you could one day face the ramifications for your willful disregard of California law.
Being a notary is not about "what is the least amount of effort I can put into this and still argue that I am within the law". It is also not all about "give the customer the least amount of grief". It is to comply with the law and, for those laws which are vague, to comply with the government interpretation of that law or, in the absence of such interpretation, to do what a reasonable person would be expected to do in substantial compliance with the law.
Call me pompous, but I am a public officer. I have yet to meet any other public officer who is 100% cooperative with constitutent demands. They have rules and policies to follow, so do we.
| Reply by HisHughness on 9/8/12 9:31pm
Msg #433704
Re: Uncalled for behavior, and it seems that every time the
*** in the absence of such interpretation, to do what a reasonable person would be expected to do in substantial compliance with the law.***
A most reasonable approach, except that Robert's application of it always seems to maximize the role of the notary public without regard to its effects upon the client.
We are there as an adjunct to business, to see that the client's business gets done within the law -- which was written to ensure, to the extent possible, that fraud would be minimized. We are not there to enforce an INTERPRETATION of the law that will interfere with the client's business.
It seems when we get into these discussions that Robert always embraces the most restrictive interpretation of the law, which also always seems to magnify his role in any transaction.
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 9/8/12 9:45pm
Msg #433706
I know of NO OTHER public officer that exercises their
authority loosely. When you walk into the DMV, their job is not to be cooperative with customers, but to issue a driver license to a customer while applying the most strict requirements. People in Florida get turned away because the seal on their birth certificate is mildly worn out. They don't just throw their hands up in the air and say "whatever is easiest for the customer!"
| Reply by HisHughness on 9/9/12 12:20am
Msg #433710
There is an ancient adage applicable here, Robert:
"There's more than one way to skin a cat."
Perhaps, when you actually achieve your goal of being an attorney, you will finally realize that. Courts themselves would not exist if it were not for the necessity to interpret the law when applied to a specific set of facts. Maintain your current approach, and you're going to get fired by one helluva lot of clients who have unnecessarily paid the price for your ego.
You, as is apparent in your post, always invariably every time without exception without fail choose to skin the cat in the fashion that does the most violence to the cat. I think that is because you derive satisfaction from inflating your role in any notarial process. And you do that without consideration of its impact upon the client.
Where do you get the idea that the role of the DMV is "to issue a driver license to a customer while applying the most strict requirements"? The role of the DMV is to issue drivers licenses and to follow the law in doing so. If the DMV can do that under one construction of the law and refuse to do it under another, even if both constructions are reasonable and neither is provably wrong, you would send somebody away without their license. But you would have established your authority, yes sir, you surely would have done that.
I am beginning to understand why you don't do loan closings. There would be damned few loans that got closed with you as the signing agent.
| Reply by LKT/CA on 9/9/12 1:25pm
Msg #433717
Re: Uncalled for behavior, and it seems that every time the
<<<There are many notaries on this board who like to do the bare minimum. Some of us prefer to take the extra precautions, myself included.......Being a notary is not about "what is the least amount of effort I can put into this and still argue that I am within the law". It is also not all about "give the customer the least amount of grief". It is to comply with the law and, for those laws which are vague, to comply with the government interpretation of that law or, in the absence of such interpretation, to do what a reasonable person would be expected to do in substantial compliance with the law.>>>
I totally agree!!
| Reply by BrendaTx on 9/8/12 10:34pm
Msg #433707
...and....I do not know why linda/ca would respond like that. I don't think it was a great way to address thiss issue.
I'll probably have a few more comments on it tomorrow, but need to sleep on it first.  Long day.
| Reply by Les_CO on 9/9/12 9:28am
Msg #433713
I am not a CA notary, and I have no interest on how an individual CA notary interprets their law. It’s your individual journal, you have a commission, you passed some test, you took and passed some required education course, you are supposed to be literate in the English language. Keep your journal the way you want, right or wrong. If you think the wording in the law is ambiguous, write your governing body and state your case. Why discuss it endlessly here? Why would you care what someone else puts in their journal? Do any of you care what I put in mine? JMO
| Reply by LKT/CA on 9/9/12 2:53pm
Msg #433723
<<<Why discuss it endlessly here?>>>
THIS thread's title is clear so there's
<<<Why would you care what someone else puts in their journal? Do any of you care what I put in mine?>>>
This is a discuss work forum to ask a question, share an experience, vent a gripe, or get chastised (i.e. accepting work from a 2 star SS, getting stiffed by them, and then whining here about it). I would hope that those who respond to posts want to help in some way or why bother replying? I have no issue with how to keep a journal. It doesn't matter to me whether the one line entry method is law or not. My SOP guarantees my records cannot be challenged/refuted. If I can share a technique/method/experience that I believe will help someone achieve the best possible outcome, I'm happy to do so. People can do what they want with the info, it does not matter to me. Wisdom is taking what you know and implementing that knowledge to bring about the BEST possible outcome. Wisdom needs NO law.
| Reply by LKT/CA on 9/9/12 2:57pm
Msg #433724
Need an edit button
<<<Why discuss it endlessly here?>>>
THIS thread's title is clear. The journal discussion is continued by others.
| Reply by Les_CO on 9/9/12 3:44pm
Msg #433730
My post was not directed at you personally. Yes, I know it’s a chat board. Yes, I know different people have different opinions, or interpret the CA laws/regulations differently. Buy why do some get so vehement about what someone else does with their journal? If you have an opinion, just say I do it this way, you do what you want. We’ve had hundreds of posts on this subject, most of which are guesses. Personally I couldn’t care less. JMO
| Reply by LKT/CA on 9/9/12 4:31pm
Msg #433733
<<<If you have an opinion, just say I do it this way, you do what you want. >>>
I believe the vehemence of some lies in that very word - "opinion". I think the debate is in the fact that there IS a law, that law is clear, and opinions are out the door on this issue. Some reject the notion that there is a law and believe it's every notary for himself/herself.
| Reply by MikeC/TX on 9/9/12 7:05pm
Msg #433744
"I believe the vehemence of some lies in that very word - "opinion". I think the debate is in the fact that there IS a law, that law is clear, and opinions are out the door on this issue. Some reject the notion that there is a law and believe it's every notary for himself/herself."
You're right, and we all know that CA has some of the strictest notary laws in the nation.
Those who choose to swap their own interpretation for what the law actually says do so at their own risk. The fact that some get vehement about their contrary opinion speaks volumes about the way we carry on "discussions" in this day and age, but once someone resorts to attacking their opponent personally rather than addressing the issue, the debate is over and they lost.
| Reply by LKT/CA on 9/9/12 10:28pm
Msg #433754
Exactly, Mike n/m
| Reply by linda/ca on 9/10/12 5:08pm
Msg #433808
Hello, LKT and others of like mindedness and concern. It is common knowledge, to some of us, that too often individuals on this site does not read through post prior to posting a comment. In this situation, however, it really, really, baffles me because it was "you" who copied the comment that "I" copied directly from Marian, that in my view was basically stating that anyone that did not agree with her should shut up. I am having a difficult time comprehending how you are so blind to the fact that, in my opinion, Marian was the one initiating the attack and I don't want to get caught up in that "two wrongs don't make a right drama!" I might also offer that perhaps this could be why you interpret the "journal entry issue incorrectly. Can we agree that, obviously, there are different interpretations of that law?
As far as your statement about me not giving a counterargument; unlike you and Marian, I have no desire to continually bicker and try to force everyone on this board to come around to my way of thinking regarding the subject. As an FYI, this matter caused many opinions about a month ago and I strongly gave my interpretation, not once, however, several times. Do some searching and you will find me amongst "ALL" the comments that you two "AS USUAL" made on the subject.
I want you to know that your comments/jabs about me not knowing how to have constructive debates, blah! blah! blah....is another example of "YOUR" lack of comprehension. My gosh, you don't even get it when you are the author. Take time and think about what you are writing without contradicting yourself in just two paragraphs.
Lastly, don't take this as aggression, however, to prove that I am not cowardly hiding as you seem to think (as that is the "LAST" word that anyone who know me would use to define me) we don't live that far from one another and if you would like, I would be willing to meet you at a mutual Starbucks and buy you a cup of coffee or whatever your choice of beverage is. Keep in mind that I am a very busy person, therefore, this offer comes at a great expense as it will take away from my precious time, however, am willing to do this if you would like to meet me. LKT, The reason I know your location is because I called you once, not so long ago, to offer you some GNW because it was closer to you and I did not have the time. I was trying to help the person who called me as they were desperate due to their circumstances, as well as the fact that you have noted that you don't get many calls for work. See, I'm really a nice person; :-), however, I will admit that a flaw in my character is that sometime I let people who get on my last nerve, like you two little snapping turtles......not intending to be cruel....typing this with a smile on my face, get the best of me and if nothing else......if my comment will cause you and Marion to "cool your heels some," when this subject is posted again and unfortunately it will, my mission is accomplished. Seriously, I posted that comment back to Marion as I don't think you two realize that you seriously need to chill! I admire passion, but c'mon!
Private message me if you want to take me up on the Starbuck offer.....
| Reply by LKT/CA on 9/10/12 7:11pm
Msg #433825
<<<...it really, really, baffles me because it was "you" who copied the comment that "I" copied directly from Marian, that in my view was basically stating that anyone that did not agree with her should shut up.>>>
You're waayyyy in left field with this one. Anyone that knows me on this board knows that I usually quote the statements I'm responding to (just like I did above). This way, wherever my post falls in the thread, there's no mistake as to who/what I'm addressing. It is rare that I don't include a quote in a response to someone. You misunderstood my writing style and because of that you to jumped to wrong conclusions about why I included that quote. That was your first mistake....and the first mistake led to the second mistake, which was telling me to "shut up". Your third mistake was this last post you wrote to me as it is based on <again> you jumping to wrong conclusions.
It really doesn't matter whether I interpreted the law correctly or incorrectly because the practice of recording separate line entries for each notarization proves exactly how many signatures I've notarized and guarantees that my records cannot be challenged or refute. It also ensures I will be paid for ALL of the notarizations I've completed. I don't need a law for that. Good luck, linda.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/11/12 4:12am
Msg #433869
OK, ladies, why don't we just agree to disagree?! 
My personal opinion on this was best summoned up in the quote from Harry when he said something to the effect that the CA Handbook says what information needs to be included, but does not say what method must be used to include it. I believe this leaves some room for interpretation - like much of what is in our handbook - and many interpret the language differently. Ultimately, we each will do what we think is best.
| Reply by linda/ca on 9/12/12 1:36am
Msg #434032
Coffee????
| Reply by linda/ca on 9/12/12 1:40am
Msg #434033
Sorry, tried to post under LKT's comment as the coffee question is directed to ms LKT.
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