Posted by 101livescan on 9/26/12 8:23am
Msg #435944

MY PERSONAL CHALLENGE TO ALL OF YOU!

What if none of you said YES to low ball fees, and stand your ground at $1XX.XX. Please, take stock of your worth, unless of course you feel you have no value out there.

DO NOT WORK FOR UNDER $100. Most escrow/title companies' standard signing fee is $150....do not work for cheap.

This is my personal challenge to you, that you can get what you're worth. This is no cake walk! Do not allow yourself to be manipulated into working for too little.

Try it, you'll like it!

Have an awesome day!

Reply by MW/VA on 9/26/12 8:26am
Msg #435945

Some of us are already on board with that. It's super busy

& have no time for the lowballers. Obviously, someone is taking them, though & shame on them. :-(

Reply by bagger on 9/26/12 8:42am
Msg #435946

Here is the problem with that.
When I started in this business, I knew hom much I wanted to make, did my business plan, etc.
I was then testing the waters here and on other sites, asking what the base rate people were accepting.
Boy did I catch the flak!!
W

Reply by bagger on 9/26/12 8:44am
Msg #435947

Hit the wrong button!!

Here is the problem with that.
When I started in this business, I knew hom much I wanted to make, did my business plan, etc.
I was then testing the waters here and on other sites, asking what the base rate people were accepting.
Boy did I catch the flak!!
What ever happened to everyone's great fear of price-fixing?

That is exactly what you are doing if we band together and set a bottom floor for our services.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/26/12 9:07am
Msg #435952

Price Fixing

Any real estate folk out there remember "Sherman" Anti-Trust? Many had to ask: Are 6% Realtor commissions “customary” or “prevailing,” or the “average?”

In YOUR area, Is the $XXX signing fee 1) Customary; 2) Prevailing; 3) Average ?

My advice: Follow YOUR own business model as "bagger" stated and work HARD to justify your Fee!

Reply by MW/VA on 9/26/12 9:21am
Msg #435954

IMO, it's not price fixing to set a minimum standard for the

industry. We've discussed it many times before, there are different "climates" throughout the country (different demographics) & many variables, including more travel in some areas.
IMO no one should be accepting $70, $85, fees for instance. Each person decides for themselves, of course.
I know what the prevailing fee is in my area. I also won't involve myself in bidding for work. I have my minimum & work for the cos. that can meet it.

Reply by ikando on 9/26/12 10:37am
Msg #435968

Re: Price Fixing

Rather than phrasing it as "price fixing", how about looking at it as setting a minimum wage? If all the costs and time are added together, anyone who chooses to work for the offered low rates, is NOT earning a minimum wage. That's why plumbers and mechanics have a base price for their professional services.

We are also providing a professional service that affords the lending/escrow/title companies more sources of income (remote clients). We should be afforded the respect as professionals helping them with their bottom line by being paid at least the minimum wage their office employees are earning hourly.

Reply by bagger on 9/26/12 12:09pm
Msg #435993

The difference is.

Minimun wage applies to hourly paid workers. We are not hourly paid employees, we are sub-contractors.
It is up to each individual business (you are a business) to determine their expenses and and what they want to earn as profit.
And, sorry to say, if the majority of business's in an area get together and set the floor for their services, that is collusion and price-fixing.
For example, Joe the plumber wants to raise his rates, but if he does he risks losing business.
He cannot get together with 75% of the plumbers in his area and set base fees.
Joe must weigh the risks and rewards of raising his own individual prices.

Reply by ikando on 9/26/12 2:01pm
Msg #436023

Re: The difference is.

Bagger, I appreciate you pointing out that we are independent contractors. My entire point was that WHEN we determine what our fees should be, the fact that WE are ENTITLED to earn at least as much as minimum wage hourly workers for our professional services. Further, I was comparing our fees to what plumbers charge for their services, who also are often independent contractors, though could be hirelings who are paid by the hour...frequently at union comparable rates (the price).

In your example, what is Joe's rate being compared to that would risk his losing business if he bases his fees on the rates offered by other plumbers--in effect a floor or "fixed" rate?

Why is it okay for us to accept the low price fixed by those who are hiring us ostensibly as independent contractors because it serves their bottom line? Every time we accept lower fees, we lose more independence.

Reply by janCA on 9/26/12 9:11am
Msg #435953

it's only a suggestion, bagger, it is not price-fixing.

Low-ball to me is a Title company offering me $125 for a 130-150 page document and then wanting faxbacks on top of that. PASS. Cheryl is correct, and every assignment is subjective, depending on what is expected.

And again, as I've stated before, there is no "standard fee" as suggested by some of the companies that call, many, of which are new and low-balled the title company in order to get the account.

Work smarter, not harder. It is possible!!

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 9/26/12 10:19am
Msg #435961

Cheryl, while I agree with you and take no less than $125.00

per loan signing, I am sure that most notaries that take less, will not be up to the challenge for fear of losing the lowball companies they currently work for.
Have an amazing day.

Stephanie

Reply by Jessica Ward on 9/26/12 10:54am
Msg #435977

I wish more notaries truly understood P&L statements

and also how to differentiate between profitability and cash flow.

Unless you're walking to appointments, I can't fathom how these $50-60-70 appointments are actually even covering costs. I mean more than paper/toner, but how are you buying your next vehicles, how are you covering your health insurance, are you saving for retirement, etc? And after that, are you getting a wage? Is it working out to be above minimum wage?

I truly think a signing agent willing to sell themselves at such a low price would have a far more profitable career working at Starbucks as a barista, and certainly far less chance of a nasty run-in with the IRS. Oh, and the phone won't ring at all hours, and you'd always have set days off... come to think of it, that Starbucks gig is sounding pretty good.

I couldn't afford my accountant if I was accepting such low fees! ;-)

Reply by jba/fl on 9/26/12 11:08am
Msg #435981

Starbucks also give full bennies for PT people. We pay ours. n/m

Reply by Barb25 on 9/26/12 11:03am
Msg #435980

It is interesting that those stating standard fees of $150

or more live in areas where the cost of living and wages are generally higher. I don't believe you can generalize and think that everyone can ask those fees and get them. Real estate costs in different areas of the country are a perfect example of that.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/26/12 11:16am
Msg #435983

I agree.I can "state" my standard fee is $150 til I'm blue

in the face - getting it is another issue. Not in this area.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/26/12 11:54am
Msg #435989

Re: I agree.I can "state" my standard fee is $150 til I'm blue

That's it, exactly: Start "high" and offer to give them a $25 discount!

I can't help think that there are some NSAs on another planet (Neptune?) calling US morons for taking "anything less than $2xx."

Reply by TheCloser123 on 9/26/12 12:00pm
Msg #435991

Re: It is interesting that those stating standard fees of $150

Don't sell yourself short. And don't think because you live in a non metro area that you can't get the fee you deserve. If you don't believe me, check out what is being charged on your next HUD for "notary" services. You might be a bit surprised when you realize they are charging the client more then 3x what they are paying YOU for YOUR services. They don't charge the borrower less because they live in a rural area... And yes, there are notaries out there that will always work for less, but personally I would rather close only 3 and make the same amount that they are closing 6. That is working smart, not hard.

Reply by Barb25 on 9/26/12 12:39pm
Msg #436000

I will try to remember that. n/m

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/26/12 12:16pm
Msg #435995

TC's don't seem to take that into account when they

charge their fee for our services to the borrowers. TC's in CA, FL, PA, TX, etc. all seem to charge $150-$200 regardless of where the borrower or property is actually located or where the signing will take place.

Most of the HUDs I have seen lately have been hiding the cost of the NSA services in their title charges but the same TC's used to separate them out for all to see.

I'm so glad that the government has demanded more transparency in real estate transactions, aren't you? <sarcasm>

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/26/12 12:06pm
Msg #435992

I must ask (in all sincerity): How many CA notaries (or whichever states background screen their notaries) would REFUSE to sign up with a SS requiring a background check?

Why not all of us "band together" and INSIST on our right not to perpetuate standards/norms - including BGCs and Certifications - industry-wide unless they are Necessary?

Which notaries are willing to stand their ground and challenge the SS they do business with NOT to submit to BGCs (with their security & credit risks)? What about NOT advertising "XYZ Certified," which while potentially useless, may guarantee you business from some gullible SSs that equate this designation with "Competent & Qualified"?

Just sayin' . . .

Reply by sueharke on 9/26/12 12:38pm
Msg #435999

I think anyone who deals with financial transactions or money should be willing to agree to a background check. If I was an employer, I would do a background check on anyone who handled money or financial transactions. I would not want to be sued for the actions of another person.

How often and who does the background check is another story. I agree that more than one from a reasonable source is excessive. The industry needs a single policy on this issue.

I once worked in a field where I was a temp and the company asked to accept money from patients. I did not have a fidelity bond and could have taken the money, but would not do that. The company decided that I was not the right worker for them. I heard the next person who came in to replace me did steal from the company and not hand it to the correct company contact.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/26/12 1:08pm
Msg #436013

I have no problem having a BGC done...but

"How often and who does the background check is another story. I agree that more than one from a reasonable source is excessive"

Realizing that the BGC is but a snapshot in time that's really no good immediately after it's done - how do you determine excessive? I had one done in April because of my lapse in this business - it's now end of September. My commission was renewed two years ago and is still good for another two eyars. Wouldn't it be reasonable for a company to request it since 6 months has elapsed since the last BGC? I, personally, know I haven't done anything - and IMO a brief search to show continuous commissions should confirm.

Guess I'm saying I can see where they're coming from in asking for it. I don't agree with it - simply because I know I haven't done anything - but I get it. Now, the point is getting THEM to get it.

Reply by ikando on 9/26/12 2:08pm
Msg #436024

Re: I have no problem having a BGC done...but

And then there's the question of who pays for the BGC. If each company which "requires" a check would offer a free one through the company of their choice, I may be willing to submit. However, when you have several companies with their own demand that we pay for the check, just for their files, that's too much. Particularly when they don't give you any work even after the hoops have been jumped through.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/26/12 6:08pm
Msg #436083

I think maybe you should direct the question about background checks to notaries from other states, as having one done is a prerequisite to even getting a notary commission in CA. And many of us (not just in CA) HAVE chosen to forgo getting a certification or BGC from a certain company who claims it should be a requirement.

As for the issue of a background check being obsolete the day after it's issued, I understand the theory, but I think the idea is to screen people out (i.e those who have previously committed some kind of infraction), not to prove beyond any shadow of any doubt that a given individual is squeaky clean. I believe the assumption is that there's some level of probability that the past is a predictor of the future. (I have no idea what that probability is, but the people that provide these services likely do.) To put it plainly, if someone has never committed any illegal act, paid all their parking tickets, etc., they're likely to continue to do so, but if someone else has a history of wrongdoing, there's a greater chance of them doing something questionable - or flat out illegal - again in the future.

Reply by bfnotary on 9/26/12 1:17pm
Msg #436016

I totally agree, taking anything less than 100 is a disgrace to this business and only professionals know better


Companies surely will get what they pay for. If they want a professional they will pay for a professional.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/26/12 2:15pm
Msg #436027

From one professional to another . . . I could not afford to accept a signing fee under $1xx.xx

However, that wasn't the point of my secondary "challenge." (Nor was it the reasonableness of BGCs); I'm ALL FOR the 3-digit fee AND the BGC - but don't want to impose either on fellow business owners, who are ultimately the only ones who can decide how to run their businesses. Some of us are not duly concerned whether we get 5 calls a week or 50.

My point was: Say companies were ONLY calling NNA-Certified, background-screened agents, a pair of Stacy Adams for each day of the week, suv-driving agents (maybe that's what THEY consider 'Professional') . . . Should the MAMN-Certified, hybrid-driving, non-fancy shoe owner LOGICALLY refuse a $95 fee during a particularly slow week if he had only to go 5-10 miles for a signing with no fax-backs (of course) and a Totally clean package delivered well in advance of the appointment (i.e., drama-free signing start-to-finish) ???

Gentlemen: You're supposed to be the non-emotional, logical breed - speak now or forever . . . (: