Posted by BrendaTx on 9/26/12 12:32pm
Msg #435997

New one for me - stamp on the picture

Beautiful lady from Iraq...I do mean beautiful. 27 y.o. Is an m.d. (doctor) in Iraq, and is now taking courses here to become a doctor. She had a form from American med school proctor that required a picture of her; statements from her, plus, an acknowledgment (no swearing involved), and I was to stamp my seal ink partially over the picture/partially on paper when I applied the seal. Cool concept. Didn't break any rules; smart document constructor.

I have a little tower fan by my desk to keep me cooler than everyone else cares to be. The ink had to dry so I held it by the fan and we talked.

She spoke almost perfect English. Used her Iraq Passport and student ID for id.

I said, "I have been having a sore throat...what can you prescribe me???" She was shocked at first, but started suggesting herbs and I kept teasing her about could she look in my ears, etc. She finally realized I was kidding her. I said, "Girlfriend, you do not look like what I typically think of as an Iraqi woman!" She laughed. She said, "I am very typical. There are many women like me in Iraq, but no one ever wants to show us on tv. WE look like Americans."

I plan to get with her again. I want to ask her more questions. I have notarized for many Iraqi women, but they always have on the traditional extremely modest clothing. This little lady was wearing skinny jeans, etc.

PS:
If anyone wants to discuss political topics as an offshoot of this, please copy/paste in politics. this is not a political post. Just wanted to share the picture/seal ink side of it and share that I showed my ignorance.

PS: NOW I need ink that is smudge proof....

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/26/12 1:44pm
Msg #436021

Brenda, Was the picture photo-copied on the document? Just want to know more - since I know we can't notarize actual photos here.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 9/26/12 2:11pm
Msg #436026

I've seen a number of state handbooks and other guides that make a rather clumsy statement that notaries can't notarize photos. But I think the intent is that notaries can't certify that in the notary's opinion, the photo is a photo of a certain named person. If the photo is contained in a document that needs notarization for some other reason, it may be OK to notarize the document despite the presence of a photo. For example, if a photographer and a publisher were signing a copyright license, and the license contained a copy of the photo so it would be clear exactly what photo was being licensed, there might not be a problem taking the acknowledgement of the photographer and publisher.

Brenda's case is kind of in-between. Brenda isn't saying it is a photo of the M.D.; the M.D. is acknowledging a form that contains a copy of herself. Without seeing the form, we don't know who is saying what about the photo.

If someone from a state with a "don't notarize photos" paragraph in there handbook gets a request to notarize a document with a photo, I hope they will contact their SOS and/or read the section of their law that the handbook is based on, to see exactly when the paragraph applies, and when it doesn't.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/26/12 2:43pm
Msg #436036

Hi Gerard! (: Sensible explanation. Well-thought out. Thank you

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/26/12 9:24pm
Msg #436107

The document did not mention the photo.

It simply showed the photo with a request to lay part of the seal over the photo.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/26/12 9:23pm
Msg #436106

It was firmly attached to the document.

Reply by jojo_MN on 9/26/12 2:39pm
Msg #436035

A friend of mine (US citizen) was getting a job in another country (Saudi Arabia). The embassy there required on one of the documents that we glue or tape a passport photo to that page and stamp my seal so it is overlapping onto the photograph.

Reply by ToniK on 9/26/12 3:46pm
Msg #436049

Muslims dress according to the religion. So there are different sects of Islam and many have different dress requirements. But yes, Iraq didnt/doesnt (not sure now) have strict clothing rules/laws like the Taliban and Sharia laws have.

Anywho, I have had request of notarizing photos. I tell them I can certify a true copy of an ID but not of a photo.

Reply by Jessica Ward on 9/26/12 3:55pm
Msg #436052

This is really common in foreign countries

My Ethiopian daughter's documents are all stamped across the photos, and my approval letters for adopting her, etc, have stamps in purple (yes, they love purple seals in Ethiopia!) all over the photos.

I thought it seemed like a disaster area (my same worry-0-smudges, etc) but since photos are just stapled to the pages (often right in the middle) it does make sense to show that the photo hasn't been tampered with.

Love those low-tech solutions.

Reply by Barb25 on 9/26/12 4:55pm
Msg #436066

Re: This is really common in foreign countries

I truly hope this is not a ridiculous question but does the stamp obstruct the photograph. I mean can you identify the person in the photo with the stamp over it?

Reply by Jessica Ward on 9/26/12 4:59pm
Msg #436072

It doesn't obstruct in the docs I have

The purple ink dries a little translucent on a photo, also you don't want to mark over the face, just over the photograph--typically taking one of the corners.

Reply by Barb25 on 9/26/12 6:30pm
Msg #436087

Re: It doesn't obstruct in the docs I have

Interesting.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/26/12 9:26pm
Msg #436108

No. The photo is undisturbed by this process. n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/26/12 7:24pm
Msg #436095

I've met several Iraqi women in my notary travels (and even more Iranians, as there is quite a sizeable Iranian population in this area). They're mostly very well educated regular folks - and I can't recall ever signing anyone in a headscarf. (Although I did recently do some notary work at a couple of fundraising events for Syrians raising money for refugees from the brutality going on there. One event was at a hotel and one was in front of a local mosque. (I was notarizing forms for unclaimed assets from the state which an attorney was helping them search for.)

As for the type of notarization you're describing, that wouldn't fly here in CA, as we're prohibited from using our stamp separate from the actual notary verbiage.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/26/12 9:27pm
Msg #436109

Janet, I think that the photo/stamp were close enough to the certificate language to be reasonable, in this case.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/28/12 12:42am
Msg #436234

I should have reread your message and waited to post my comment until I came back from the appointment I was about to leave for because here's what I found when I finally checked my state's handbook for the specifics:

"Notaries public are cautioned to make sure that the notary public stamp leaves a clear impression. All the elements must be discernible. The seal should not be placed over signatures or over any printed matter on the document."

I remembered that we couldn't stamp over any verbiage or signature, but I'd never even considered stamping over anything else - like a photo. However, it doesn't specifically say that we can't. I'm going to have to chew on that one a bit. I guess it would depend on the photo and how well the stamp would be discernible.