Posted by Tiffany Harms on 9/28/12 7:24pm
Msg #436383

Two credible witnesses

I just got a call for a notary job.
Husband is in hospital in bad health may pass away. Wife says
He needs to sign a form to make sure she get the retirement money since
He didn't provide any will or anything. She says he can barely sign a X.
But is aware what he will be signing as he asked her too.
Wife says she can get one of his family members to be present what do I do?
Is this a two credible witness scenario if so remind me what I need them to do
Do they sign the form
Along with his X and I swear them in along collect there info correct?

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 9/28/12 7:41pm
Msg #436389

This sounds like a signature by mark.

The handbook tells you how to go about it. I've only done it once.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/28/12 7:50pm
Msg #436390

First and foremost: Never, EVER let anyone else's crisis become your problem or responsibility. Follow the rules to a T. Ensure that you are able to communicate with the husband. Do not allow the wife to speak for him. The husband may only be able to nod or shake his head yes/no to questions - that's still communication. The fact that they waited until this critical time to handle their affairs is NOT your problem or responsibility so do not let the wife/family make you feel that it's you standing between them and her getting the retirement money.

Secondly, if the husband does not have acceptable ID, then two credible witnesses (preferably not related to either of them by blood, marriage, or adoption). The credible witnesses can also witness the signature by mark. Go to the SOS website and download then print the 2012 notary handbook. It has instructions for notarizing a signature by mark.

Reply by John Tennant on 9/28/12 10:30pm
Msg #436413

I recently did one of these. The husband must be able to communicate, even with a nod. I used the caretaker and the social worker as credible witnesses. Some hospitals/hospices will not allow their employees to be witnesses because of liability. Follow the handbook. I did, and am comfortable that everything was correct.

Reply by CJ on 9/28/12 11:12pm
Msg #436416

ALWAYS keep your handbook in your notary bag.

It's a good thing they gave you a head's up on this. You could have walked into this situation COLD and not known what to do.

Credible witnesses are for identification.
Signature by Mark is when he signs with an X.

They have different rules, but the handbook explains them thoroughly, so ALWAYS have your handbook with you.

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 9/29/12 9:09am
Msg #436439

I've done this too...signature by mark. You are there to verify that he signs, but he has to be in the capacity to sign as well.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/29/12 9:14am
Msg #436444

What I find odd about this scenario..

which I realize is not our concern....but iffy, sniff-test situations get me thinking .... beneficiaries, or "payable on death" parties (POD's) are designated when the retirement paperwork is initially filled out. This "retirement money" should be designated already..

But I agree, yes, Signature by Mark and possible CW's also involved if he does not have current ID. I believe the witnesses to Signature by Mark also need ID. All procedures are in your handbook.

Good Luck with this.

Reply by dgd/CA on 9/29/12 2:02pm
Msg #436471

Re: Signature by Mark, witnesses but not Credible...

Just responding to your initial request. I do this quite a bit. You need two witnesses (not a party to the transaction), that simply witness his signature, presuming he has valid ID, If Not, you also need two separate credible witnesses...sorry, can't be the same). The first witness writes his name to the right (be sure to do this on all "initialed" sections as well). Then on the witness side as well. Second witness just writes their name below the first, no address is required. For the ones just viewing the By Mark procedure, you do not need to verify their ID, they are there just to See Him Sign By Mark (could be a freaking circle or dot). SOS prefers that the witnesses sign your journal in his signature line.

I have a couple of different forms for this, Word 2007 (if you have a previous version, let me know so that I can save in that format for you). Send me your email and I will forward them to yo, you will need to substitute my information for yours.

Reply by dgd/CA on 9/29/12 2:05pm
Msg #436472

Re: Oops..Signature by Mark, witnesses but not Credible...

This takes a huge amount of time, I urge you charge accordingly. Remember, if an attorney in CA were to go there and perform on this function (bringing a staff notary) the charge would be in the high XXX to low XXXX figure. Good luck...

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/29/12 4:28pm
Msg #436494

Where in the handbook does it say....

.....SBM witnesses and CWs must be four different people?

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/29/12 4:24pm
Msg #436493

NO, signature by mark witnesses do not....

....need to be ID'd, only CWs need ID'ing.

Reply by dgd/CA on 9/29/12 5:15pm
Msg #436502

Re: NO, signature by mark witnesses do not....

I agree. My bad, thought that was what I stated. With regards to the Credible vs Signature Witnesses, made a quick call to the SOS a couple of years ago and that's what they told me. But then again, knowing how anal the office can sometimes be, you're probably right. lol