Posted by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/20/12 12:07am
Msg #435095

"Never been a problem before"

How can a woman be married for 15 years, using her husband's last name for all that time, but never have an ounce of ID in that name? Her DL and passport have just her maiden name; she has never bothered to change them. So, now they're mad at me cos every other notary for the past 5 refis hasn't seemed to notice or care that her name on the loan docs has an extra name (her husband;s) for which she has no ID. But aside from that, how has she managed not to run into all sorts of problems along the way. Like, during these 15 years, has she bought an airline ticket in her married name but showed her maiden name DL at security. Don't they check those things? Don't people care when she shows her ID when she writes a check (which has her married name printed on it) but then shows ID without the married name? What's the point of having ID if it doesn't match anything? Why all of a sudden does the buck stop with me? Her husband shouted, "This is ridiculous!" cos I wouldn't play ball. Other than that, they were a lovely couple.

Reply by linda/ca on 9/20/12 2:10am
Msg #435098

Makes you wonder, doesn't it? They act so nonchalant about it. Like....what's the problem? I'm like you, GoldGirl/Ca; she's gotten away with this for "fifteen" years?!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/20/12 2:28am
Msg #435101

Count me three... Sometimes, though, I suspect that they're trying to pull one over on us, that they know it's going to be an issue, so they figure the best defense is a good offense. After all, rules apply only to other people, right?

However, some people do manage to go through life without ID. Not everyone flies or participates in other activities that require an ID. Not everyone even has a checking account - and I have to admit that it's been a very long time since I've written a check at the grocery store (or anywhere else where I've had to show ID). Just sayin'...

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 9/20/12 4:52am
Msg #435104

Can't you use her marriage licence to confirm idenitity?

Reply by rengel/CA on 9/20/12 11:38am
Msg #435124

Not in California n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/20/12 11:39am
Msg #435125

No, Ilene

For better or worse, marriage licenses are not permitted ID. CA is pretty specific about what we can use: DL, passports and military ID are pretty much it. Basically, government-issued ID with a photo, serial number, physical description, etc. Recently the SOS went the other direction, actually saying that SS cards are not permitted (not that they ever were on the approved list; now they're on the unapproved list). In other words, CA pretty much rules out flimsy pieces of paper that people are always trying to hand off to me, like birth certificates ...

Reply by VT_Syrup on 9/20/12 6:56am
Msg #435110

There is a big controversy about requiring ID to vote. This isn't the right forum to debate the merits of voter ID, but the discussions do bring out how many people in this country don't have government issued photo ID. If I recall correctly, the opponents of voter ID are saying around 10%. The opponents also point out that "free" voter ID isn't really free. The people without ID are often poor, elderly, or both. Getting to the proper office involves arranging transportation, with is difficult. Many would have to take time off from work, which is also difficult. Then you have to get the documents that are required to get the ID, like a utility bill and birth certificate. But if you are homeless or couch-surfing, you will have trouble proving residency. If you don't have ID, you will have trouble getting a birth certificate, especially if you are old enough that your parents and siblings are dead, or if you are not on good terms with your parents.

Of course, NSAs only have to deal with the elderly portion of the un-ID-able population; the poor portion usually don't own homes.

I do volunteer work with a disaster relief organization. One thing this organization lacks is a van to drive people around. Getting people into the office so we can give them money is difficult. Getting them home from a shelter after a disaster is over is also difficult, just due to lack of transportation.

Reply by ikando on 9/20/12 9:57am
Msg #435120

Re: Proof of ID

VT, I've asked similar questions to my State legislators. No one has come up with a solution--yet.

My next best course of action--and this is something I don't understand why those fighting the voter ID issue don't handle-- is to find a way to help those who are without current ID to get one. When there's a push to vote, it seems helpers come out of the woodwork to carry those without transportation to the polls, but where are they the rest of the time between elections? In my opinion, if there was a true concern, it seems to me these helpers would offer to assist those without ID to get their birth certificates or other identifying documents, take them to the necessary agency, and maybe even offer to pay for the expenses of those who are truly without means.

Whenever I notarize documents for elderly people who no longer drive, I give their caretakers a card I created that summarizes the requirements and some locations where they can get a non-expiring State-issued ID. Those caretakers may be family, but often are hired through an agency, and I make sure those personnel have a few cards. My goal is to spread the word that there are ways to obtain an ID.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/20/12 7:39pm
Msg #435180

Re: Proof of ID

I agree that the voter ID controversy has shed some interesting light on this issue for us. One thing I've learned is how different the procedures are from state to state. Everyone here complains about our DMV, but I'm beginning to think that most of us here in CA (at least in the major metro areas) have it pretty good because there's always an office reasonably close by. Apparently that's not the case in many places.

However, not everyone has helpers at their disposal who can assist with travel and/or payment issues. I like your idea of the information card. I imagine some will need more than information, but at least that's a good step in the right direction.

Reply by Keys_Notary on 9/20/12 12:00pm
Msg #435126

Got into that same situation with NREIS & they threatened to drop me, said other notaries do it all the time. They still call me but haven't met my fee in over a year so no big loss there.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 9/20/12 6:00am
Msg #435108

I once signed two DC attorneys - husband and wife. Wife's ID had maiden name, but the docs had wife's married name. She told me, ""Oh I only use his last name socially. I never legally changed from my maiden name." If you only use your marrried name "socially", then why did you have your loan docs and house title put into your married name, lady????

Reply by Smitty/MI on 9/20/12 6:44am
Msg #435109

I agree......being a "notary signing agent" give you no special powers. States laws that regulate us does not care about us being "NSA's, your better follow the rules or be prepared to defend yourself if you decide to go with the flow to get a few dollars. This could come back to hunt you years from now and more than likely you want remember the satuation enough to keep from looking foolish in court. Just do the right thing. What don't they get about this. We are sworn to prevent fraud, and our #1 tool is PROPER ID.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/20/12 3:48pm
Msg #435153

Just use a little dime store psychology, i.e "Not sure of your past refi experiences, but TODAY, cases of identity theft and elder abuse are astronomical. The SOS has really gotten tough on notaries about IDs and names on docs to the point of doing something similar like "mystery shopping" them. There have been recent cases where notary commissions have been revoked because the notary didn't go strictly by the book. And for your protection, <yada, yada>.

Get creative. Instead of the borrowers thinking it's you (the notary) against them, just turn it around and make it somebody else's fault (the SOS) you have to be so strict about the ID issue. Go with the "Don't know what the other notaries did but **I** don't want to lose my commission or have my journal audited...."

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/20/12 4:16pm
Msg #435160

Thanks, Cheryl!

That's pretty much what I said - only you said it much more elegantly!

BTW: Is this actually true: <<The SOS has really gotten tough on notaries about IDs and names on docs to the point of doing something similar like "mystery shopping" them. There have been recent cases where notary commissions have been revoked because the notary didn't go strictly by the book.>>

Cos I'm soooo tempted to go to the county recorder's office, find out who notarized the last two refis and ask for their journal entries. Just for fun. Then maybe not. Maybe I'll turn 'em in to the SOS. Actually they may have used 2 CIWs, which I pretty much ruled out when they (the lender and TC) asked me today if I'd go that route. I said I'd really prefer she took title in a name for which she had ID, since there was absolutely no reason she shouldn't have ID in that name. It's not like she didn't have any ID at all or it was expired and she never got it renewed or whatever ..... she has just chosen for the last 13 years not to get this taken care of for whatever reason.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/20/12 4:56pm
Msg #435166

Re: Thanks, Cheryl!

Well....it "could be" true of some notary somewhere, LOL!! I don't know that the CA SOS actually does it. It sounds technical enough (and serious enough) to put the blame on some other entity (SOS) as the cause for your strict adherence to the letter of the law. The more the borrowers keep coming with the "this is ridiculous" the more I would just point to the SOS....i.e., THEY require....it's THEIR rules....THEY audit....THEY'LL revoke my commission, etc. etc.

And as far as the "other notaries did it".......Okay Mr. & Mrs. Borrower, let's just abort this signing until the "other notary" can be located and he/she can notarize this loan package for you as they did before.

Reply by Molly/Ca on 9/20/12 4:16pm
Msg #435161


I had the SAME THING HAPPEN ON 9/18/12

Reply by Molly/Ca on 9/20/12 4:32pm
Msg #435164

Sorry fingers typing to fast. She stated that she owns 2 properties and the other
Notary Public just needed to see her Certified Mrg Crt. to make sure she was married to this man. I said no way I need ID, she said I can bring people to state that I am this person. I need Id . Husband said the same thing "This is ridiculous". I asked for passport she said what for I never had a problem like this. I said no can do and walked myself out.

Reply by Cathy/CA on 9/20/12 5:45pm
Msg #435171

Something I say that works well is "The penalty for each document notarized with improper ID is up to $10,000 (for CA notaries). There are 5 documents, so that would be up to $100,000 in penalties and me possibly losing my commision." They realize how serious of an issue it is and let it go.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/20/12 7:46pm
Msg #435181

Pushing invisible "Like" button... :>) Hard to argue w/that! n/m

Reply by rolomia on 9/21/12 9:45pm
Msg #435330

Don't CA laws allow notaries to use 2 witnesses to verify BO ID? I wonder if the company that hired you found another notary to complete the signing order utilizing such a scenario? I, too, prefer ID in the name on the docs. But, if state law allows 2 witnesses, why not proceed with said signing? Just curious.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/22/12 10:44am
Msg #435394

Because one of the requirements that the witnesses have to swear to is that they know it to be difficult or impossible for this person to get an ID. Seems to me that any property owner, under nearly any circumstances, could have managed to get a new ID in 15 years, if they tried.