Posted by Raj Sahu on 4/4/13 11:02pm
Msg #464507

Borrower wanted acknowledgment but...

This is something I have encountered more than once in my stint as a notary.
The signing client wants his doc notarized through an acknowledgment. But the problem is this: they DON’T want a certificate attached to the doc—they want the stamp where they signed. The problem is the acknowledgement verbiage on the doc was incorrect and there was no place to either impart a Jurat stamp or an acknowledgment stamp. The only option I had was to attach an all purpose California loose certificate of acknowledgment. But the client was miserable/ unsatisfied because he felt “who will see the certificate which is behind the doc?" He felt his purpose was NOT served and I felt bad.
What should I do in such circumstances experienced notaries? Am I allowed to write something like this (Flip over for the Certificate of acknowledgement) or something like that. But then the department/ person who will see the doc won’t be happy with the notary adding stuff to it. In my opinion there was no need to write anything. the certificate was stapled to the doc and that should be good enough. what do you think guys/ would appreciate positive contributions ( rather than personal attacks!) Thank you

Reply by Raj Sahu on 4/4/13 11:03pm
Msg #464508

Client, and NOT a borrower-- my bad n/m

Reply by leeinla on 4/4/13 11:28pm
Msg #464511

Roger: I don't want to attack you but you need more TRAINING

Your concern is to satisfy the hiring authority that hired you ( not violating state laws). It is your job to attach a certificate and to do it by the direction of the Secretary of State's Office. It is not our job to make the client happy. I never had a client complain about a loose certificate.

On a side note, your profile is very unprofessional. You need to get rid of the highlighted areas. It makes you look like an amateur.

Just my .02 cents.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 4/4/13 11:56pm
Msg #464521

Re: Roger: I don't want to attack you but you need more TRAINING

I am getting lots and lots of orders bro

Reply by sueharke on 4/5/13 9:12am
Msg #464542

Re: Roger: I don't want to attack you but you need more TRAINING

Raj: I am very happy you are getting a lot of work and clients. I hope you have a lot of insurance to cover you in case of a lawsuit. Legal fees are not cheap.

I agree that you need more education, rather than ask the questions you post.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/6/13 10:56am
Msg #464724

Just my .02 cents, too.

Raj asked a simple question. He shows compassion and consideration for his signer and is asking for help on how to mitigate the citizen's angst while performing lawfully. I say that is admirable.

We are appointed to serve the public and to do it lawfully.

Perhaps some forget that without the public, there is no "notary public." We serve. I feel that Raj attempts to demonstrate this.

As for this, "On a side note, your profile is very unprofessional. You need to get rid of the highlighted areas. It makes you look like an amateur." Uncalled for in my opinion. I do not necessarily agree with your assessment. Highlighting is not my style, but there are lots of folks on NR who use this technique and are highly successful and they have years of experience.

Reply by Gregory/CA on 4/4/13 11:34pm
Msg #464513

Raj, this has happened to me a few times and this is what I do.

1. I inform them the language is not California compliant and I will be striking through the proposed notarial language and enter my initials.
2. I will put a statement, "See attached California compliant language".
3. I will staple the California All Purpose Acknowledgement to the document as recommended by the Secretary of State. Or, if a Jurat was required, then I provide the Jurat document.
4. I will provide an extra business card so the signing party can include it with the return of their document and if they receiving party has concerns, they can call me for clarification.

Once I explain to them the language is non-compliant to California law, the signing party is satisfied with the explanation. If they continue to be dissatisfied, then I show them the page 11 of the Handbook and explain the term "Shall".

I hope this helps.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 4/4/13 11:50pm
Msg #464519

Excellent answer Gregory! Thank you very much! :) n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 4/4/13 11:35pm
Msg #464514

I usually write: Loose CA Acknowledgement attached. You must follow your state laws. You know better than to just place your stamp anywhere, don't you? You are in charge. If the client isn't happy, then let them find some stupid notary somewhere who will break the law to satisfy the client.

Reply by HisHughness on 4/4/13 11:43pm
Msg #464516

At the top of every attached certificate I write ...

"Appended to <name of document>. Even though a certificate may be stapled to the document it certifies, including the name of the document precludes any switching.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 4/5/13 12:02am
Msg #464522

That's prudent practise

I make it a point to fill up the optional section and NAME the document which makes it almost impossible for the certificate to be misused

Reply by sueharke on 4/5/13 9:15am
Msg #464543

Re: That's prudent practise

Any person who want to misuse your attached document is able to with our technology today - color copiers, computers, etc. How many fake DL are out there? Unless you put an invisible mark that only you know where it is put, then copies are easily made. As Fox Mulder said "trust no one."

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/4/13 11:44pm
Msg #464517

When I attach certificates, I always use my stamp that states 'm doing so in compliance with the relevent code. If they have any questions they can look up the code.

These are sample of the stamps I use:

http://www.highdesertnotary.com/images/attachstamps.jpg

Reply by Raj Sahu on 4/4/13 11:55pm
Msg #464520

That's very interesting Marian. so do you stamp next to the incorrect verbiage portion of the doc?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/5/13 12:06am
Msg #464523

Yes, and I initial next to the stamp.

To be clear, I use those example stamps... NOT my notary seal. That should be obvious, but just needed to mention that just in case.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 4/5/13 12:14am
Msg #464524

Thanks Marian. that's an excellent solution. I am sure NNA and some other vendors carry these stamps, or i can simply get them made locally too.
I really apprecaite your input----Raj

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/5/13 12:19am
Msg #464525

Check w/ NotRot. They can make custom stamps

They might be able to make what you need rather than going to XYZ.

Why give them or their site money when it seems that this site is where you seem to be getting a lot of really good info?
Just a thought.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/5/13 12:23am
Msg #464526

Just ask Grif here at NotRot, they will do it...

IN fact, quite a few people have had these stamps made up through them.

I had them custom made for myself several years ago when I found it valuable to simply have the legal reference listed. It works really well to answer questions as to why I attach a loose certificate.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 4/5/13 2:10am
Msg #464531

Thanks Marian, Moneyman -- here is where I will order then n/m

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 4/5/13 8:13pm
Msg #464664

Wow - I have had a custom stamp for signer to acknowledge that I am not an atty and that legal advice should be sought, blah blah . . .

but this is really good idea for non-compliant certificates. Thanks for sharing, Marian. And thank you,
Raj for feeling free to post comments for purpose of learning from the veterans here. I don't think it's productive to make anyone feel stupid or unworthy of receiving valuable assistance - when it DOES exist. Someday you'll be the Flora giving out the advice (when the old Fauna fade peacefully away . . . )

Reply by John Tennant on 4/5/13 10:03am
Msg #464553

These stamps are available from NotRot for a very good price. I use them on all ask's and jurats all of the time. Never had any questions from the Borrower, T/C or LO.

Reply by Imran Khan on 4/5/13 5:04pm
Msg #464640

Marian, I've made custom stamps with that exact verbiage and I always get compliments from TC's because it looks very professional! Thank you so much for sharing them!

Reply by Buddy Young on 4/5/13 12:46am
Msg #464527

I had a stamp made also. It says "California compliant certificate attached"

Raj, the questions you ask are notary 101 stuff and you should already know that stuff. Not being mean just stateing the facts.

Reply by ananotary on 4/5/13 1:06am
Msg #464528

This forum needs a spell check option. n/m

Reply by Raj Sahu on 4/5/13 2:07am
Msg #464530

It takes time to grow from a seed to a seventy feet tall tree. I am well on the way.

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 4/5/13 6:41am
Msg #464538

I like that saying...I am stealing this one

Reply by Kat2857/CA on 4/5/13 10:53am
Msg #464558

That seed needs to be watered with Knowledge for it to grow

.

Reply by sealed/CA on 4/6/13 4:03am
Msg #464698

Raj, I think you're doing a great job! You've made the right choice again to follow the notarial law by using the compliant certificate. Don't be afraid to keep asking questions. I'm sure there are others that are learning right along with you.
Blessings...

Reply by VT_Syrup on 4/5/13 5:28am
Msg #464534

I don't do much general notary work and haven't had to use a loose certificate outside of a real estate signing. The real estate signers never questioned me on the occasions when I had to attach a loose certificate.

If I encountered a general client who wanted the certificate on the signature page, and the preexisting certificate wasn't adequate, I would look at the paper size. If it was not yet signed and on letter size paper, I'd suggest copying it on legal size and using the extra room to write the acknowledgement certificate. It wouldn't work in every case, but might make the client happy now and then.

By the way, almost every time I had to add a loose certificate was because the preexisting certificate was a California APA, or California APA wannabe.

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 4/5/13 6:39am
Msg #464537

Hey Raj, I have ran into this as well...I gave my client an acknowledgment and told her to type up what she wanted as well as the acknowledgment on the bottom of the page (since we can't prepare documents) and that way I can sign and stamp the same page. (Just for reference)