Posted by F2F/FL on 4/18/13 9:44am
Msg #466183

Need advice on negotiating skills

I have searched first in SC and found comments close to my problem, but still could not find the advice I guess I need most.
The action that I took was to call a very good co. that has kept me busy for over a year and let them know that I needed to raise my fee with them $25.00 and it was approved and with no real discussion or requests as to why from them. So about a week later I received a call to work and the scheduler said that the fee was going to be $100, so I took it but I advised the scheduler by email that I was happy to take the appointment, but that I had requested an increase in my fee and that it was approved, she wrote back and said she would look into it but never said that it would get approved for the this appt. OK fine. Well long story short that appt. was increased and paid quickly just like all the rest. I'm happy to work for this company.

So then I started noticing that they weren't calling me (at all) like they used to. Got one more call from them, did the work, and that has been the last time I have heard from them.

One month later and no work or calls, I decided it had to be because of the increase I asked for. BTW the main reason for the increase was because the pkg's were getting bigger and bigger, with 15 or more notarizations, 150 pgs etc., so basically I was starting to work for free on these large pkg's. I didn't think an increase of just $25, was asking that much. These appt. were also starting to be 36-43 miles one way, and I just couldn't afford to do them much longer.

So I called (OK I will say who it is-- Equity National--) and discussed this with the partners division and she was very nice and accommodating, but it really didn't matter to them one way or another. I could ask for an increase but she said no matter what, that the area that I work in only pays $75-$100 and it really dosen't matter to them how many stamps are needed. She said that they will find someone that will except what they pay even if it is right next door to me.

OK so here is my question, do you think I should call them back and lower my fee back to $100, and get all the work back or do I stand my ground and loose all the work that could be coming to me? I have seriously been thinking about this before asking and I can't seem to feel comfortable in lowering my standards. I have another Co. that calls me on a regular basis and they pay me the higher fee without question and I think they would pay me more if I asked for it.

I already know what some will say, but maybe someone can put a new curve on negotiation skills with what I call another lowballer that we need to watch for. HELP

Reply by Reggie007 on 4/18/13 9:52am
Msg #466186

Stand your ground. No since in loosing money. Signing co's get 225 to 400. Get your part.

Reply by Reggie007 on 4/18/13 10:01am
Msg #466192

Market yourself. Post rates. Have sales. The low ball takers come and go (broke)

Reply by janCA on 4/18/13 9:53am
Msg #466187

Market yourself and replace Equity National with a company that will pay you the fee "you" need in order to make a profit. I would keep the higher fee with Equity National. They will call if they are in a pinch, but what does it matter, you'll have replaced them with a company who really values your service. Good Luck!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/18/13 9:55am
Msg #466189

No tips on negotiating skills here but a question

"I could ask for an increase but she said no matter what, that the area that I work in only pays $75-$100 "

I would love to see the demographic study that was done where companies determine this. What makes them come to the determination that 300 pages and 15 notarizations is cheaper in one area than in another??

You stated 15 or more notarizations - under Florida notary guidelines as to what we can charge per notarial act, that's a minimum of $150 right there...even if you discount everything after the first to $5/notarization, you're talking $80 in notarizations alone - NO other factors taken into consideration - add $25 to print two packages of 150 pages each, you're now at $105 - leaving you $20 to cover time, travel and expenses. And all this is right off the top of my head and a very sketchy outline as to what is involved.

Hrrmm..there's your argument right there - tell them that. Or work for the $100 but don't travel over 20 miles out for their signings. I personally wouldn't do that volume of work for $100 - my base fee is $125 and is for my home county only - outside my county is an additional $25.

Reply by rengel/CA on 4/18/13 12:39pm
Msg #466224

Re: No tips on negotiating skills here but a question

"I would love to see the demographic study that was done where companies determine this. What makes them come to the determination that 300 pages and 15 notarizations is cheaper in one area than in another??"

The "demographic' is that they ARE finding notaries to take these jobs in this area for $100 or less. Simple.

They are not going to pay more unless and until they cannot find a notary to take these jobs in this area for that low pay.


My .02

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/18/13 2:13pm
Msg #466241

Re: No tips on negotiating skills here but a question

You nailed it. All the other arguments are irrelevant, as long as they can find people to do the work for what they want to pay. They have their business model and we have ours. For a company like Equity National - and many others - you're very unlikely to get away with negotiating with them. They have their database, probably sorted by a combination of their internal notary rating and the fee schedule each notary agreed to. They'll accept your decision to increase your fees by inputting that info into their database, but their computer matrix likely just drops you down the ranking to a point where they may or may not ever get to you. I suspect this is true for many of the big settlement companies.

So we have a simple choice. Accept their paltry fees when they call, or try to find new clients.

Reply by ToniK on 4/18/13 9:57am
Msg #466190

Equity National is correct, they only pay $75-100. I used to do local for them for $100 but then they wanted me to go further out and I said not for $100. Yes in my backyard but not across counties. Now they must have found someone cheaper becuase they have not called me in 5 months and I havent raised the fee. There are notaries in my area doing closings for $50-60. Ive met some of them.

But for you, its really if you want to lower or keep it the same. You cant negotiate with a company that isnt into negotiation. And they are right, they will find someone who will take a lower fee and will call you if they cant find someone.

MARKET MARKET MARKET your services. There are too many companies out there to be stuck on a few.

Reply by La Trese Breaux on 4/18/13 10:54am
Msg #466207

Tonik I am very Curious about your conversation

did you happen to ask why they are accepting the low ball fees, and how are they making any money? I know quantity is good but when you do the math they are not winning.

Reply by ToniK on 4/18/13 11:35am
Msg #466215

Re: Tonik I am very Curious about your conversation

Yes I did and they have a full time job and just doing this to make extra money. And a few of them says they arent aware you can make more at this because they are told everyone is accepting these fees. Because they have an employee mentality, they arent aware of all the added cost in running a business. They dont view it as running a business but more of a pt job.

Reply by La Trese Breaux on 4/18/13 12:13pm
Msg #466217

Re: Tonik I am very Curious about your conversation

Wow, I am part time and i dont accept lowball fees. I hope you educated them and riped them a new butt hole to lol.

Reply by ToniK on 4/18/13 1:19pm
Msg #466228

Re: Tonik I am very Curious about your conversation

lol Im currently mentoring a couple of them.

But many of them work for companies I know who are notorious lowballers like Global Notary and Nations Direct. But Im not going to rip them a new "butt hole" as you say. Knowledge is power.

Reply by La Trese Breaux on 4/18/13 1:26pm
Msg #466229

Re: Tonik I am very Curious about your conversation

LOL, ok please give them alot of power, dont stop until you see them glowing.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/18/13 10:12am
Msg #466194

I did two in 2010 for Equity National for $150 each - my experience was they were extreme handholders and had so many ridiculous rules. On top of that, isn't this the company that rates every notary? Shortly after that they lowered their fees to $100 - I didn't like working with their handholding and lists of rules for $150, so I certainly was not going to do it for $100. I now send them to VM when they call - I have other great clients that pay better and are easier to work with.

If you want to keep them as a client and do go back to doing them for $100, I suggest only accepting local closings in your zip code, and saying no to the ones that involve travel.

Reply by Angela Lambert on 4/18/13 1:35pm
Msg #466231

Need advice on negotiating skills

On top of that, isn't this the company that rates every notary?

Is there a way to find out what companies rate notaries?

Reply by Jessica/FL on 4/18/13 1:59pm
Msg #466237

Almost all companies have a ranking system n/m

Reply by Angela Lambert on 4/18/13 2:11pm
Msg #466240

Re: Almost all companies have a ranking system

But is there a way to view them? Or is it just for them?

Reply by Jessica/FL on 4/18/13 2:16pm
Msg #466243

No way to view n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 4/18/13 2:57pm
Msg #466247

Equity sends you a report card monthly. No kidding. n/m

Reply by Jessica/FL on 4/18/13 2:58pm
Msg #466248

That sounds like fun. :) n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 4/18/13 10:31am
Msg #466199

First, I have never had handholding with Equity. But, the first time they called me they offered $125 so I said yes. The next time they called, they said the previous rate was because it was EOM and short notice. I will do them, but only during the day (not paying a babysitter for such a ridiculous rate) and only in a couple of zip codes near me. I certainly won't go 25 miles, esp. here in Orlando.

If they call and want across town, I tell them my rate and they decline. If they call for my area I will still try to up them, but they just don't negotiate. Due to toll roads, gas, and huge packages I'm just as willing to let them search for their NSA.

Reply by MW/VA on 4/18/13 4:41pm
Msg #466269

They're a good co. & used to pay more. They've lowered

their fees & I wasn't even able to get my usual $15 for pkgs., over 140 pgs. BTW, I don't print out ANY of the vast # of docs that are "closing instructions". That does bring the pkgs. down to normal size (110 pgs. or so).
I'd love to raise my fees, too, but the trend is that the market is offering us lower fees. I still stand my ground for a minimum of $xxx, and for me it balances out when I get paid higher fees from some cos.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 4/18/13 10:39pm
Msg #466304

Closing instructions ~ off topic, but could you please

elaborate here or on VNN about your print policy. I had some closing instructions just this week that required bo's initials. Normally i would have tossed aside!

Reply by ToniK on 4/19/13 6:05am
Msg #466311

Re: Closing instructions ~ off topic, but could you please

She is not part of VNN.

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 4/18/13 4:44pm
Msg #466270

A 25% raise in your fee is too much, IMO. I can see why they would balk. I have raised fees in the past but only 10% each time as necessary.

Reply by SharonMN on 4/19/13 9:27am
Msg #466338

Don't accept work if you aren't making enough money on it.

I find your methodology interesting, though. I have never called one of my clients and told them I was raising rates. I just start quoting a higher fee when I get calls for assignments, and they either accept it or they don't. I think the idea that you got your higher fee "approved" at the corporate level (not for any particular assignment) doesn't mean they will actually pay you that amount - it just means they acknowledged your communication about the higher fee and (possibly) adjusted your base fee in their database.

I also think your assumption that if you lower your fee back to $100 you will "get all the work back" is faulty. They've already moved on and found someone else to work with in your area.