Posted by Alyssa Mazzera on 4/5/13 1:23pm
Msg #464587

Thumbprint issue (California)

This is probably a ridiculous question, but I'm having trouble coming up with a correct answer.

In California you are REQUIRED to obtain a thumbprint from the signer when notarizing a financial DPA and/or a deed. The attorney I work for has a client who needs to sign both kinds of documents, but absolutely refuses to give me a thumbprint. I'm hesitant to notarize these documents for the client and have not done so as of yet. I have never come across a client who has been so reluctant to give me a thumbprint before.

I guess the big question is, should I or shouldn't I? I know there are fines that come into play if I don't obtain all the required information from the signer and I need to protect myself. Any other California notaries ever had this problem?

Any suggestions or information would be most helpful. Thanks!

Reply by Gregory/CA on 4/5/13 1:33pm
Msg #464593

I've never come across this situation. If I do, I would explain to them the requirement and show the information in our Handbook. If the signer continues to refuse, then I am not going to risk my commission or fines, and will therefore thank him for his time and leave.

The thumbprint is also for his protection as well as California Law.

What did that attorney have to say about this and did he explain the law to his client?

Reply by Calnotary on 4/5/13 1:34pm
Msg #464594

Are they paying you more than $2500.00

Because If I remember correctly that's the fine for failing to obtain a thumprint for a doc that it involves real estate.

Reply by Carmela Arndt on 4/5/13 1:57pm
Msg #464598

Re: I personally would not notarize those docs. if the

client refuses to give a thumbprint as required by law.

Reply by John Tennant on 4/5/13 2:41pm
Msg #464606

Re: Are they paying you more than $2500.00

I believe that is per document. As an example, 10 documents X $2500 = $25,000. Worth the risk? Not for me.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/6/13 12:56am
Msg #464697

Re: Are they paying you more than $2500.00

And doesn't include costs to your livelihood, career, reputation, etc.

Reply by 101livescan on 4/5/13 2:01pm
Msg #464599

I am amused. When you're stopped by the law for speeding, do you refuse to show your DL?

When you go to cash a check and you are asked for your DL, do you refuse?

I had a client come in for a live scan, she did not want to give me her SSN. I said, then I can't take your prints. Two vital pieces of information I need in order to process your prints are a photo ID, DL, USPASSPORT, and SSN. Without these, I can't help you.

She finally conceded.

It's the law. Sorry, we're just facilitating. Not the makers of the law.

Reply by Tudi/CA on 4/5/13 3:04pm
Msg #464609

I wouldn't touch that signing with a ten foot pole! A person who doesn't want to provide a thumbprint is likely someone with a false identity with a criminal background, who is likely someone trying to evade capture from law enforcement authorities. They may be a criminal living under an assumed identity or alias. These sorts of people would not want to give their finger prints, because a background check would expose to law enforcement who they really are (and thus enable authorities to make the arrest on an outstanding warrant).

Reply by ikando on 4/5/13 5:35pm
Msg #464646

Just out of curiosity, how often does law enforcement ask you to show your journal for fingerprint verification?

And I also wonder, as a previous poster, what the attorney/employer told the client. Didn't see a response to that question.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/5/13 5:38pm
Msg #464647

Two things here... very important.

First... you said, "In California you are REQUIRED to obtain a thumbprint from the signer when notarizing a financial DPA and/or a deed."

You need to know that is NOT accurate. As of 1/1 of this year the fingerprint laws changed to encompass many more documents involving real estate. Be sure that you review the latest handbook and newsletter for those updates.


Second, as to the situation? After YOU review the handbook/newsletter, point this out to the attorney and tell them fingerprints are the law in CA. And failure to obtain one when required isn't just a fine... any damages relating from the failure may be brought against you. Be sure to review CA Gov't Code 8214.23. But in addition to that... you KNOW it's illegal, so if you do it anyway...it becomes a "willful" act, which moves it from a civile fine to a CRIMINAL case. Willfull failure to do your duty is a misdemeanor - see CA Gov't Code 8228.1

You are within your legal rights to refuse to notarize this person's signature if they refuse to leave a thumbrpint when required. If your attorney boss tries to pressure you after you tell him it's illegal. refer him to Gov't Code 8225 -- that's the one that says *HE* is committing a crime by knowingly soliciting or coercing your to perform an illegal act.

Now that you've publicly posted about this... it would be REALLY dumb for you to go ahead and do this. The Sec of State's investigators will have you for lunch. Just say NO.

Reply by Bee_CA on 4/5/13 10:30pm
Msg #464690

I had a borrower refuse to give me her thumbprint for a refinance loan signing....on principal, she said. She said I was treating her like a criminal. Her husband said she had the same problem when she renewed her license at the DMV. I showed her the handbook that stated the requirements. She said she'll just take her name off the title, but that would require her signing a Grant Deed, which requires a thumbprint for the notary.

We adjourned the signing. Title company called me later asking if I could go back to meet them and get her thumbprint. She was very reluctant...but she gave it.

You can't skip it...

Reply by CJ on 4/5/13 11:29pm
Msg #464693

And if everyone agrees to skip the thumbprint, I think that is conspiracy to commit a crime, which is a felony. If they don't want to give their thumbprint, not your problem. Pack up and leave. It WILL be your problem if you don't get it. I prefer sleeping soundly at night.