Posted by Buddy Young on 4/16/13 2:36pm
Msg #465917

When we know

what form to use we can't say it's considered UPL. It's ironic that we deal with primarily two forms, acknowledgements and Jurats, yet we can't tell anyone which one to use even though we are experts on these two forms. We know more about these two forms than some lawyers.

I did a signing yesterday, my first since my minor surgury, and while printing and checking the docs, I noticed an affidavit without a notorial certificate attached. It started out saying " the undersigned notary". I called the hireing party and told her that there was no certificate attached and nowhere for me to sign. She said " go ahead and attach an acknowlegement." I repeated " its and affidavit". She said yea go ahead and attach an acknowlegement." So I did even though and affidavit says to me "jurat"

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 4/16/13 3:00pm
Msg #465923

I hear your frustration! what do you do with all those Chase

affs that say "duly sworn" at the top but have an acknowledgement as the cert. And, then there's the Notarial Cert Form that is prefilled with acknowledgement for all of their docs. gotta love it!!

Reply by JPH13/MO on 4/16/13 5:39pm
Msg #465948

Re: I hear your frustration! what do you do with all those Chase

...for any Affidavit that has an acknowledgment and mentions being duly sworn in or similar wording, what I do is administer an oath (if not done prior to this doc) and then my journal shows the cert notarized was an Acknowledgment with an asterisk, and asterisk goes to "*administered an oath."

This was questioned by someone I know in another state and her SOS told her to do it that way, and since it made sense that is what I now do. This way you are covered. It's too bad they don't understand what "affidavit" means - Google it and see: a written version of sworn statement: a written declaration made on oath before somebody authorized to administer oaths...

Reply by SharonMN on 4/17/13 9:55am
Msg #466039

Re: I hear your frustration! what do you do with all those Chase

My favorite is when the text of the document says "before me, duly sworn..." and then there is an ack at the bottom with the wording "and who did not take an oath" !

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 4/16/13 3:39pm
Msg #465928

Thing is, Buddy, in my experience, most of the SSs and lenders have no idea what the difference is between an ack and jurat and don't care. I think your average EO might .. but even that's a stretch sometimes. They just want a piece of paper with a notary stamp on it because whatever software they use for their documents requires it.

Also, I have seen plenty of affidavits with preprinted acks, and I gave up long ago wondering why it wasn't a jurat...I don't think even they know.

Only thing that seems to matter is what's recorded, and as far as I know it's the DOT.

Reply by BobtheElder on 4/16/13 6:19pm
Msg #465953

I administer the oath, and do the ack and send it back to the incompenents the way they have it written. The way I look at it it's their problem when it blows up in their face down the road...

Reply by Matt_VA on 4/16/13 7:52pm
Msg #465968

My approach has been that as long as the Ack has the title of the doc say "aff of whatever" then that is the notorial act, and that is what the doc creator/source wants. I had always thought that we can't create a notary act for a doc, only the source. You have me scared now.

Reply by Sha/CA on 4/16/13 9:46pm
Msg #465984

Be happy, Matt. There is different set of rules for

every state.

Reply by Roger_OH on 4/17/13 8:35am
Msg #466029

TCs and lenders mess these up frequently...

labeling a doc as an affidavit and then having an ack certificate. An affidavit is by definition a sworn statement, and the notary certificate is my sole domain and responsibility.

Regardless of the document title, if the document contains the phrase "being duly sworn", "upon oath", etc, then that's the clear intent that the document originator is requiring the oath/affirmation.

If I administer the oath, I then have to attach the proper jurat certificate indicating I've done so. I can't give an oath and have an ack certificate. I will cross out the ack certificate and attach a jurat with note on the ack of "see attached jurat certificate".

I'm the one signing the certificate indicating the type of notarization, and I'm solely responsible for its content.

In Ohio, the statutes are pretty harsh about penalties for not administering the oath when required. They include a 3-year loss of commission, a $100 fine, and even up to 30 days imprisonment.