Posted by ikando on 4/24/13 10:29pm
Msg #467046

Why is the notary responsible?

An earlier message (Msg #466971) commented to instructions from Title that a cashier's check be collected at the signing table. However the borrower had been told by the LO that a personal check would suffice. Title was angry with the notary for not complying with their instructions.

Okay, here's my dilemma. Docs come to me with barely enough time to print before I have to hit the road. In those docs are instructions to gather documents, or information, or payments in various forms. If these instructions require actions by the borrowers (obtaining a cashier's check before the time of signing, for instance), why is it the notary's fault if what is provided is not what was requested in the instructions? Same with other various requirements. I've seen some instructions that state if something is missing or incorrect (per their instructions) which is to be collected at the table, the notary will have fees reduced. I don't understand the logic. The notary has no financial benefit, except whatever fee the hiring party agrees to pay to an independent contractor, so if the borrower either doesn't provide information or has other instructions, why penalize the notary?

I've not done closings in a title company office, and hope some of you who have can answer this question--If the borrower doesn't have everything with them at the table when signings are done in the office, who, if anyone, is penalized? The closing employee? Somehow I doubt it.

Reply by John Tennant on 4/24/13 11:10pm
Msg #467052

I, for one, do not do "print and run". The only time I tried it was a disaster with all the docs not transmitted, borrowers angry with me, etc.

Now, I get the docs at least 2 hours before the signing or I turn it back. Have some SS's gotten angry? You bet. Their problem, not mine. They were told when they contacted me the conditions that I would accept the signing.

If the borrower has been told something different from my written instructions I call Title.

I am responsible when I take any signing that meets my conditions.

In the last 5 years I have not had any of those type problems.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 4/24/13 11:23pm
Msg #467053

That depends on how busy you are John. You obviously have plenty of work to be able to return a closing back to title. As for print and run don't do it. It doesn't take that long to check the hud and title instructions to see if the check should be a bank check or personal check then call the borrower before you leave. If there isn't enough time for the borrower to get a bank check call title and get wiring instructions. There's no way around this, you have to comply and stop being in such a rush, you will save yourself grief.

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 4/24/13 11:30pm
Msg #467056

I understand. It wasn't that way in the old days. The "Notary" is not responsible for missing items. However, more is required of a Signing Agent in these lean times. In the old days, an escrow officer would take complete responsibility for ensuring the client was advised as to how much cash to bring to closing and in what form the funds must be remitted. They relayed the closing conditions prior to the appointment - eg, "Bring your latest paystub to the closing." They obtained the 10 year employment/residence/marital history prior to docs being drawn. They ensured the parties were in possession of satisfactory identification matching the vesting, on...and....on.... Those days are gone. They want us to help them accomplish a smooth closing. Some title companies are very professional and very appreciative of what we do to ensure nothing is missed for them. They understand it is their job to do certain things and appreciate partners that pick up those balls on their behalf. We bend over backwards for those gracious ones. A gracious partner treats us like well educated vendors that are given leeway to think and resolve problems and make educated decisions. I always want to bend over backwards to accommodate and make sure everything is perfection for them. Another title company, ignorant of our notary regulations, trys to pressure us into doing what is not an appropriate notarial act, acts like we don't have much upstairs, speaks in a condescending manner, doesn't understand the difference between a closing agent (them) and a signing agent (us), yada yada. The 1st partner gets 150% of my effort and expertise. The 2nd gets only 100%. Give your best to the partners that value your services. Try to cover them in any way you can. Work less, or not at all, for those that don't treat you as a valued partner. You want to make yourself absolutely invaluable to your best clients. Do not allow anyone to put you in a position of handling the closing in a rushed and unprofessional manner. If you are put in a time crunch to where you cannot provide top notch service, turn the closing back. Best to miss a closing than to miss something on a closing you have serviced. Keep in mind that this industry will be mostly an efficient electronic system the near future (not the cumbersome e-signs we see today). When that change takes place, only the cream of the crop signing agents will be retained for those that require the "old fashioned" service. We'll be "old fashioned" faster than many think. Please don't shoot me!!!!

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 4/25/13 12:04am
Msg #467062

and it's because of all these additional "items" and information we're having to collect at signing that is prompting me to advise borrower when confirming appt that they MUST be able to reach their lender during the closing. Tonight I was so tired helping borrower wade through the HUD/FHA addendum certification on top of the 10-yr history form and the 14-count data form with "Approved" and her initials - and it took an additional 30 minutes. Why do I need to know if VA and/or not FHA, but FHA (huh???) check this box, . . . OR what valuation was used for the property.

We got lender on line at 9:30 pm and she walked thru which places to check. Why someone who has never been a part of the specific transaction up to that point should be involved in this is beyond me - and I too, agree that it's "bending over backwards." Inasmuch as I get a "Final" HUD1 about an hour before the signing with not so much as a FINAL or Revised stamp. I "rejected" before printing and asked Title to notate that this was the good one.

Couple of days ago a signer was deeply agitated at having to complete the 10 year history form and kept speaking obscenities -even using the foulest of expressions at the height of his agitation. His rudeness and lack of embarrassment for it I couldn't understand, BUT his frustration was easily understood. He clearly had a vision impairment (was holding everything up to his face while wearing glasses) and this extra "admin" stuff was getting on his (and my) last nerve.

His poor wife was getting the brunt of it: she was the prim bo and was in a different time zone 3 hours earlier!!

p.s. Go figure why we miss an extra date line on the RTC (sorry borrower dated once and I didn't catch the 2nd date and not going back)

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 4/25/13 12:33am
Msg #467073

oooohhh I feel your pain! You deserve some chocolate

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 4/25/13 12:35am
Msg #467074

Chocolate: What do you think

I've got sitting on my nightstand as we "speak?"

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 4/25/13 12:37am
Msg #467075

Re: Chocolate: What do you think

Cool. Hope I'll get to see my nightstand sometime tonight. Still printing docs and doing faxbacks

Reply by ikando on 4/25/13 8:01am
Msg #467093

Re: Why is the notary responsible

Ronnie, you totally understood my question. I don't do print & run, but I also don't see it as my fault if something the lender or title has on their to do list isn't done.