Posted by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 10:50am
Msg #482088

Do you give a reduced rate on bulk notarizations?

If someone came to you needing 50 notarizations, would you charge them $500 or would you give them a reduced rate?

I'm fortunate to have found a customer who is dealing in helping people save their homes from being repossessed by banks. He brings the customers to me with these huge packets of legal papers that they serve on the banks and loan companies. I have one of his customers who has already been here 3 other times, with probably close to 40 notarizations and yesterday he came with 50. He originally thought there was only going to be 25, so came prepared with cash to pay $250.

I just didn't have the heart to charge him $500, so I charged him $300. Even then, it seems like so much money for not very much work.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/27/13 10:55am
Msg #482093

It's your business, do what you want.

FWIW, I'd probably discount it, too, as no matter how you slice it, it looks like it's paying better than loan work and he's a frequent flyer--plus no printing & they come to you, too. Doesn't get much better.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 11:00am
Msg #482096

Re: It's your business, do what you want.

Oh, don't get me wrong...I'm very grateful for this customer and know this is a rarity.

And to be clear, MY customer doesn't pay me anything. He brings HIS customers to me and they pay me, so it's different ones all the time.

Being a new notary, I'm not used to charging people for things, it's not in my nature. I spent most of my life working with the disabled and donating my time nonprofit organizations, so it doesn't come to me easily.

I just want to make sure that charging full price would be the norm in most instances.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 8/27/13 11:03am
Msg #482101

CA regs say we can charge up to $10 per signature.

We can do it for free if we want to.

Was Lee/AR said, it's your business. Charge as you wish -- provided it's no more than our cap.

And then, I'd more than willing to help you with the overflow if you're in my area!

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 11:34am
Msg #482113

Re: CA regs say we can charge up to $10 per signature.

LOL...I'm in the L.A. area. I don't currently have any in the area referrals, if you're here, I'd be happy to recommend you.

I realize I CAN charge the max...I guess I'm just wondering if a majority of you would morally charge the max.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/27/13 12:44pm
Msg #482141

Re: CA regs say we can charge up to $10 per signature.

Morally charge?

oh....

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 12:54pm
Msg #482146

Re: CA regs say we can charge up to $10 per signature.

Oh?? n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 8/27/13 1:04pm
Msg #482151

Re: CA regs say we can charge up to $10 per signature.

Eric - I said "oh" because you said "morally wrong". Who is to judge that? I'm not....not my domain.

You are in CA and have strict journal requirements. Are you entering each of those 500 documents/notarizations, into your journal? That alone is a daunting task, not worth $10 each? Some documents have long names....

Back to "notary protests": if you have your journal entries correct, then you can see the words UCC repeating all over the place if indeed a protest. Do you see those?

Just curious, as I think you should be as well. Google and use the Orange search button here: notary protest Been discussed here a lot. I think that you don't want to lose the gravy train to another, you like it stopping at your door.

JMO - which is free, therefore, worth nothing.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/27/13 2:26pm
Msg #482179

my thoughts exactly...protest! go for it...and goodbye! n/m

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 4:24pm
Msg #482221

Re: CA regs say we can charge up to $10 per signature.

I didn't ask for anyone to judge it. I'm asking what the consensus is for the morals of those reading here. I just wanted to know how many people would "morally" not charge full price for a large number of notarizations. I don't care one way or the other how people feel about this morally.

It's not 500 documents, it's 50 documents at $10. But yes, I enter each and every one. Yes, there have been documents with UCC on them, but there are others as well.

I'm not sure what you meant by lose the gravy train.

Reply by Bear900/CA on 8/27/13 5:04pm
Msg #482231

"JMO - which is free, therefore, worth nothing." - Funny!! n/m

Reply by Luckydog on 8/27/13 10:59am
Msg #482095

Hope you are not involved with anything shady. Many of these "help save your homes" companies are a farce, and the legit ones use an attorney or have an office exclusive to doing this, not using a mobile notary. In any case, I would cut them a deal. Regular price for the first 10, then 1/2 price for ea. additional, or something like that.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 11:01am
Msg #482099

Yeah, I've wondered that myself. Regardless of what he's doing, I am legitimately notarizing the signatures, so I think I'm safe. I guess the downside would be having to testify against him if that were really the case.

That formula sounds good....thanks.

Reply by Darlin_AL on 8/27/13 11:13am
Msg #482105

Eric, you're not safe

"Regardless of what he's doing, I am legitimately notarizing the signatures, so I think I'm safe." This viewpoint scares me. You definitely would be included in any investigation and it would be Federal. They are not nice people to play around with (no offense, Feds, but it's the truth).

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 11:36am
Msg #482115

Re: Eric, you're not safe

I realize that. All I'm saying is that he's not asking ME to do anything illegal. Even if his docs are illegal (which I have no idea whether they are or aren't), all I'm doing is notarizing someone signing them.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 8/27/13 1:32pm
Msg #482161

If Eric is simply identifying the signers and notarizing

their signatures, what is he doing that's wrong?

Reply by jojo_MN on 8/27/13 12:14pm
Msg #482125

And the person that may have been scammed can testify against you for helping facilitate if there is a crime being committed and you didn't do your due diligence to make sure it is not a fraud. JMHO

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 12:21pm
Msg #482128

I have been trying to look into him. He has a legitimate career in the entertainment industry in past years.

Yes, someone could testify against me, but I'm only doing my job. That would be like testifying against a bank teller for handing money over to a robber.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/27/13 11:11am
Msg #482104

Good point, Luckydog n/m

Reply by Darlin_AL on 8/27/13 11:07am
Msg #482103

logically, if it is all separate customers you're notarizing go with the $500 for 50. Do you have any idea if this a charity project or if this man is charging the people? You see where I'm going with this as it is extreme exposure for you if he's scamming them in any way. If I understood your post, a customer came in with 40 pages to notarize that the individual customer is signing? Is it all the same form? My suggestion is to check into exactly what is going on--just appears fishy to me. But, I am definitely out of touch with what one would do to fight a foreclosure. The logistics you described is mind-boggling to me. Forum members, please enlighten me!

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 12:20pm
Msg #482127

I don't know for sure, but I assume it's not charity. The guy says he's a paralegal, I don't know if that's true or not.

The documents all appear to be the same, but they are all going to different banks or loan offices associated with his client. There have been 5 clients so far. He has the client then take the docs to the post office and send them registered mail.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/27/13 12:27pm
Msg #482131

Sounds like the equivalent of a notary protest.

AND, as said, someone trying to skip out on their debt. I would tread very cautiously.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/27/13 12:53pm
Msg #482144

Re: Sounds like the equivalent of a notary protest.

My thought also...preying on the Hope of the people involved.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 12:56pm
Msg #482148

Re: Sounds like the equivalent of a notary protest.

This seems to have opened an unintentional can of worms. While I appreciate everyone's concern, I really don't think it's appropriate to condemn based on speculation.

If indeed this guy is on the up and up, and I have no proof to think otherwise, he's doing these people a lot of good.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 12:54pm
Msg #482145

Re: Sounds like the equivalent of a notary protest.

I'm not sure what you mean. From what I've been able to discern, these people have had their properties taken away based on some weird technicality. I have heard 2 of his "clients" mention already going to court and the judge admonishing the banks for wrong-doing.

These documents are being filed with the courts, so if I'm doing something wrong, so are they.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/27/13 12:28pm
Msg #482134

"Forum members, please enlighten me!"

How can we enlighten you? We are learning about this the same as you. You just have to glean from the same posts and decide what is valid and what is not; what is legal and what is not; what is deceptive and what is not.

As long as the need for notarizations if there, whatever reason is not for us to decide IMO.

But, conversely, if one feels that this is not really on the up and up, then one changes operational behavior. The thing is, the client is bringing people and their work to the notary. If the client is shady, he is going to just change to another notary if there is a protest. Until the client is found to be doing something wrong, which is not the notary's decision, then who is to say. The person harmed, the foreclosure borrower, is the one to bring the charges. Unfortunately, they have to learn to let go instead of resorting to measures that perhaps are foolish and gain him nothing. Even when these victims are told by the news people, or you or I, that this is a scam, they don't want to believe it....that only happens to "the other guy".

Logic does not always reign supreme.

Reply by Darlin_AL on 8/27/13 1:45pm
Msg #482164

jba fl I meant as to the foreclosure process...

are you that do a lot of GNW encountering the quantity of forms to be notarized for one individual that Eric describes?

Reply by jba/fl on 8/27/13 2:24pm
Msg #482177

no n/m

Reply by jojo_MN on 8/27/13 11:28am
Msg #482110

I am in agreement with others in that only you can decide what to charge. It is your business.

The BIG issue is are you doing a thorough investigation into what the company is doing and doing a research into that company in particular. There are many scams out there and I was working with both the states of MN and WI regarding some unethical companies doing illegal activities. I was told that if there is a crime being committed, we as notaries could be held accountable and be charged with aiding and abetting a crime. We walk a very thin line in our profession.

I would use extreme diligence to make sure that this company is on the up-and-up. Search for complaints about the company and do a search on the subject. An example would be a company that is offering Debt Resolution that charges borrowers upfront fees in the form of either a check or automatic withdrawal from their checking or savings accounts. It is illegal in most states. The money may look good that you are making, but at who's expense?

Not an attorney, or giving legal advice, but just make sure you are not putting your own future on the line to make a few quick bucks. JMHO

Reply by MW/VA on 8/27/13 11:36am
Msg #482114

This is important advice, Jojo. Eric is new, and seem a bit

niave. There were loan modification application cos. around a while back that were charging large upfront fees. Most of that turned out to be scams, and it's now illegal in most states to charge a fee upfront for the promise of a positive outcome. Most of those folks lost their homes in the end.
Eric, we don't want to end up reading about you in the newspaper.
This sounds like a good gig. That saying about "if it's too good to be true, it probably isn't" might apply.
As a notary we do more than notarize. We also make sure we're not party to any illegal activity.
PLEASE check them out & let us know how it goes.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 12:26pm
Msg #482130

Re: This is important advice, Jojo. Eric is new, and seem a bit

I appreciate that concern....truly!

I don't want to read about me in the newspaper either!

From what I can see with my own eyes, nothing appears to be out of the ordinary. I have no idea if having a customer do this many notarizations for legal paperwork is not normal. He brings me his customer, they sign the papers in front of me and I notarize them. Some of the documents appear to be upwards of 25 pages long...I have no way of knowing if there is anything illegal in them.

I am checking him out the best I can. I'm reticent to question him for fear he's legit and takes offense and finds a different notary!

Reply by rolomia on 8/28/13 4:18am
Msg #482315

Use the great pay your getting to hire an attorney to review

...copies of the documents in the packages that you are notarizing. I've heard of an entity called Legal Shield (formerly Prepaid Legal) that reviews legal docs. for a monthly membership fee. Or, call your local lawyer or attorney referral service. If it were me, it would seem reasonable to spend $50 to $100 to obtain a legal review of said documents. But, that's just me. Others are free to do as they wish, up to and including going to jail (LOL). JMHO

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 12:23pm
Msg #482129

Since reading all your posts, I called the FBI to inquire on his name. They said they couldn't give me any information, but took my information and said they'd pass it on to the field office. If they need me, they know where they can find me.

I can at least show that I've made an attempt to see if he's legit.

Reply by ME/NJ on 8/27/13 11:33am
Msg #482112

$2.50 per notarization for 250 would be over $600 dollars in NJ so it would be up to you what you want to do and time doing this. Biggest thing would be your time for doing them all.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 8/27/13 11:59am
Msg #482122

I would be very careful about this

I am wondering if these people are involved with the people who don't think they should be paying taxes, etc. They send notarized letters to people in government, financial institutions, etc. If this is the case, I would run away in the opposite direction. This is a scam. You, as the notary could at the very least end up with a suspension of your commission. At the worst, who knows? If you think anything is too good to be true, it probably is.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 8/27/13 12:13pm
Msg #482124

Re: I would be very careful about this

You guys are right! How come I never have these nefarious thoughts???

Eric proceed with caution, please.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 12:29pm
Msg #482135

Re: I would be very careful about this

How can I end up with a suspension of my commission if I have no reason to believe it's a scam?

All I'm doing is notarizing a signature, nothing more.

But again, I'm trying to see if I can find out more. I've contacted the FBI.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/27/13 12:38pm
Msg #482139

Not saying this is a scam, Eric, but that kind of thinking

is going to get you into a lot of trouble somewhere along the line. Yes, we notarize signatures & are not attorneys. Regardless, we have to comply with laws besides notary laws. There are countless stories of notaries brought into court for being parties to illegal activities.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 12:51pm
Msg #482143

Re: Not saying this is a scam, Eric, but that kind of thinking

So you know just about as much as I do about the transactions...what law am I breaking?

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 8/27/13 1:29pm
Msg #482160

If it is a request for a legal notarization, I do not see

the issue; I base a request for notarization of a signature on the following:
**Is the signer appearing before me.
** Does the signer have valid ID.

My own criteria:
**Is the signer aware of the meaning of said document signed.
**Did the signer sign said document willingly with no pressure from anyone.

I follow California notary Law.
I am not responsible for the contents of the document and because I notarize signatures does not mean I am party to wrongdoing, if it so happens to be illegal.

Reply by rolomia on 8/28/13 4:20am
Msg #482316

Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it! n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 8/27/13 12:38pm
Msg #482140

FBI's good, but you can get a lot of info through google. n/m

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 1:00pm
Msg #482150

Re: FBI's good, but you can get a lot of info through google.

So true....and I have googled him. A lot came up about his work in the entertainment industry, nothing bad. There was only one mention by someone who said he was a part of a group of 3 people that they had a problem with, but they couldn't pin anything on him in particular.

He seems to know a lot of Hollywood movers and shakers. I do a big Halloween display at my house every year and he's putting me in touch with a BIG name Hollywood makeup artist who appears on the TV show "Face Off." Not that that means much of anything, but I don't think people would align with him if he was into something shady.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/27/13 1:08pm
Msg #482153

Re: FBI's good, but you can get a lot of info through google.

"I don't think people would align with him if he was into something shady."

Using that logic: Bernie Madoff had a lot of people aligned with him, but made no difference. They were duped.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 1:16pm
Msg #482158

Re: FBI's good, but you can get a lot of info through google.

So are you saying all cases would be the same as Bernie Madoff? Can we trust no one because some people are untrustworthy?

Reply by rolomia on 8/28/13 4:26am
Msg #482317

"but I don't think..."

"...people would align with him if he was into something shady."

Unless the people he aligns with are shady, themselves. If it does turnn out to be shady, then, make like a shade tree and leave (Sorry! Couldn't resist). JMHO

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 12:30pm
Msg #482136

Such intrigue! Will keep you all informed! n/m

Reply by Doris_CO on 8/27/13 1:00pm
Msg #482149

Re: Such intrigue! Will keep you all informed!

Eric, there are lots of discussions about the modification and foreclosure scams that were around a couple of years ago. You can do a search using the orange search button and type in "modification application" and you'll see a lot of information here.

The other procedure that was mentioned is a Notary Protest, or in Colorado it's called Notices of Dishonor. Not all states will allow a notary to notarize this type of document so you should check your Notary Public laws for your state. The following is just a part of the explanation in the Colorado Notary handbook;

Notices of Dishonor: "A Colorado notary is also empowered to present and give notices of dishonor and
protest notes and other negotiable instruments, but only in accord with specific UCC
provisions. ..........Requests for notices of dishonor and protests are very rare. Apparently, these “notices of
dishonor” are tied to fraudulent UCC filings or attempts to be relieved of responsibility
for a debt, such as a mortgage. Lawful requests, made in accord with both the notary law
and the UCC, are even rarer. They may, in fact, be nonexistent at this point. The world of
commerce has now grown past any real need for a notary to be involved in this function....."

Most states wrote up new laws to deal with the modification scams a couple of years ago. I'm sure your state is one of them. You should also check your states laws regarding Notary Protests or Notices of Dishonor because with the amount of papers you're notarizing that are going to banks, etc., it appears it could be some form of protests to avoid foreclosure of the borrowers property.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/27/13 1:05pm
Msg #482152

Re: Such intrigue! Will keep you all informed!

And you also mention all those registered letters - another feature of the protests.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 1:13pm
Msg #482155

Re: Such intrigue! Will keep you all informed!

Thanks for that info, Doris.

I looked it up and it doesn't appear that either is relevant to this. But I'll keep looking!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/27/13 2:15pm
Msg #482172

Re: Such intrigue! Will keep you all informed!

Doing a notarial protest involves a different type of notary certificate, not a standard acknowledgment, so I suspect this is something different altogether. (See info below about protests in CA.) But it doesn't mean that they aren't trying to use some other equally bogus scheme to get out of paying financial commitments. It also doesn't mean that this isn't legit, if atypical. Sounds like you don't have enough info to be able to decide, but as you said, that isn't a prerequisite to being able to notarize a signature in California.

I do agree, though, that you should use caution, but I also think you don't want to over-react. And as I indicated, I also agree that it sounds like you're simply completing a legal request for a notarization. The liability issue you may need to be most concerned about, imo, is if one of those folks later decides to take legal action against your client and decides to include you, since you were there - whether or not they have any legal grounds. You'd still probably have to hire an attorney and defend yourself.

Having said all that, it sounds like you might just have a good gig on your hands. To address your original question about what to charge, I would say it depends. Are correct notary certificates included with each document or are you having to replace them? How long is it taking to complete each one? I would probably look at it differently if it were 40 or 50 different people vs. a few people with 40 or 50 signatures needing to be notarized. If it was the latter, yeah, I'd probably give him a break. But it's probably a very good idea to have expectations clear up front.

I think I'd also try to get into conversation with the guy, just expressing interest, not like I'm trying to cross-examine him (or with the people signing the docs), to see if I could learn more. I'd also probably want to make sure that he realizes that having a document notarized doesn't make it "legal".

********
Here's what was said in the January 2012 SOS Newsletter about protests:

"Under California Commercial Code section 3505, and Government Code sections 8205 and 8208, only notaries public employed by a financial institution, during the course and scope of the notary’s employment with the financial institution, are authorized to demand acceptance and payment of foreign and inland bills of exchange, or promissory notes, or to protest such bills or notes for nonacceptance or nonpayment. This change is intended to reduce the abuse of the protest process.

Maximum fees for protests are no longer prescribed."

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 5:09pm
Msg #482235

Re: Such intrigue! Will keep you all informed!

You're right Janet, I don't think this is notary protests. See my latest entry explaining what it is.

Reply by Darlin_AL on 8/27/13 1:50pm
Msg #482166

Doris, thank you for answering my question w specifics n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/27/13 1:45pm
Msg #482165

Maybe to give us all a better idea of what you're

involved with here, Eric, since you're required to keep a journal with each document noted, perhaps you can list the names of some of the documents you notarized - and I mean pertinent titles, not just "Affidavit" or "Name Certification". I'm not required to keep a journal but I do and when I do GNW, if the doc title doesn't tip me off I make notes in the note section as to what it relates to (e.g. an entry for Warranty Deed would have notes on "transfer of property located at blah blah). Some of us, from that information, may be able to recognize exactly what transaction these notarizations are associated with.

I cannot imagine what legal packet contains 40-50 notarizations in one filing. jeez.

Just a thought.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 8/27/13 1:55pm
Msg #482167

Did you accompany him to the post office?

Ddi he put too much postage on the envelopes? These two things are hall marks of a notary protest. In my state, AZ, these notarizations are strictly prohibited.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 2:17pm
Msg #482174

Re: Did you accompany him to the post office?

I did not go to the post office.

After doing some more reading, I'm beginning to agree that these are notary protests.

I found a document online that describes them, and it seems they are legal in California. https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsedm.org%2FForms%2F09-Procs%2FNotCertDishProc-sample.pdf

It says in part: "The notary protest method helps reduce the work of the judge and results in all the facts and law subject to argument to be stipulated by action or omission before the litigation even begins. You will buy a lot of credibility with the judge by showing that you did everything within your power to resolve your own disputes and stay focused on avoiding litigation at every opportunity. This may cause him to prejudice the outcome in your favor and against your opponent."

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/27/13 2:28pm
Msg #482181

Re: Did you accompany him to the post office?

See my Msg #482172 (just above) with a quote from the SOS newsletter about protests...

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 4:35pm
Msg #482224

Re: Did you accompany him to the post office?

I found a document online that outlines the procedures for a protest. It appears that this guy is doing most of it himself and all I'm really doing is notarizing the documents, and accepting the returned green proof of mailing cards.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/27/13 5:04pm
Msg #482232

You just confirmed it...you're doing a notary protest

And your previous post where some documents mentioned UCC also confirms it.

Tread carefully. You've admitted what it is - you can't deny it - listen to what your fellow CA notaries are telling you. Don't google - go look up those CA codes that prohibit your involvement.

As to your prior post - the "gravy train" jba/fl refers to is a steady income stream of one client = $400 - $500/visit. That's a nice consistent income stream = gravy train.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 5:14pm
Msg #482236

Re: You just confirmed it...you're doing a notary protest

I think it's really dangerous for anyone here to talk about these things as if they know what's really going on. Everything you say is speculation based on the information I provided.

I can admit to lots of things, that doesn't mean it's accurate....and I can deny it. In order to look up the CA codes, I'd have to know exactly what it is I'm dealing with. None of you know for sure what that is, so I'm not sure why people are emphatically saying anything one way or another.

I know what a "gravy train" is, I didn't understand her use of it when she said, "I think that you don't want to lose the gravy train to another, you like it stopping at your door."

Why would I lose the gravy train to another?

Reply by jba/fl on 8/27/13 10:35pm
Msg #482306

Re: You just confirmed it...you're doing a notary protest

I can't believe I have to explain this to you. If you quit doing the work, another would get the work. This person has no inclination to stop, and you don't want to.

Eric - you justify this all you want. Don't investigate on your own - take the word of the person sending you the work. But if push comes to shove, you will be in the limelight with explanations to be given, and some smart lawyer who wants to make a name for him/herself will Google your name and find this conversation archived right here.

Morals? again? Morally bankrupt comes to mind.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 8/27/13 6:21pm
Msg #482265

Re: Did you accompany him to the post office?

Eric in your Msg#482224, you said, that " the guy is doing most of it himself, and all you are doing is notarizing the documents AND accepting the returned green proof of mailing card"s.
I can assure, that no notary public, doing general notary work in CA, would take on the task of accepting proof of mailing cards.
What are you to do with the proofs? Why is it your job to accept these proofs?
How can you not see that what you are doing is EXACTLY, what the CA handbooks says is a notary protest, and it is not to be done by a NP assisting the general public.
Everyone here is concerned on your behalf. Take heed, please. Do not be blindsided by this smooth talking guy.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 9:30pm
Msg #482294

Re: Did you accompany him to the post office?

I am more than a notary. My business is called, "Eric's PRO Services." I'll do just about anything as long as someone pays me. So I'm not collecting the mailing cards as a notary since that not a notorial service. However, having said that, from what I've read about Notary Protests, those notaries actually DO collect the cards and keep a log of them.

So I'm not sure why you're assuring me that no notary would do that.

If you would have read further in this topic, I came to the conclusion that I'm NOT doing Notary Protests, so I'm NOT doing EXACTLY what the CA handbook says is a notary protest.

I appreciate the concern, but I don't appreciate being scolded because you're misinformed.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 8/27/13 9:43pm
Msg #482303

Admit it, you are justifying what you do to keep the gravy

Just because you choose to call it "a separate" service that you are providing; does not make it so. If you were not involved in the notarization's, you would not be asked to log the mail proofs. You want to have your cake and eat it to. All I can say is Heaven help you!!!
If you read the CA notary Handbook, you will see that it SPECIFICALLY excludes an ordinary notary from doing protests. ONLY bank employees can do them, and then only in the context that it pertains to the banks business. You need to read your handbook. It is pasted below from the 2013 handbook. The last sentence reiterates all you need to know about protest.
§ 8205. Duties
(a) It is the duty of a notary public, when requested:
(1) To demand acceptance and payment of foreign and inland bills of exchange, or promissory
notes, to protest them for nonacceptance and nonpayment, and, with regard only to the
nonacceptance or nonpayment of bills and notes, to exercise any other powers and duties
that by the law of nations and according to commercial usages, or by the laws of any other
state, government, or country, may be performed by a notary. This paragraph applies only to a
notary public employed by a financial institution, during the course and scope of the notary’s
employment with the financial institution

Reply by VT_Syrup on 8/27/13 2:30pm
Msg #482184

Re: Did you accompany him to the post office?

That would be a sovereign citizen/tax evader/debt evader description of a notary protest. In the past, the legitimate use for a notary protest was to record that someone wouldn't pay certain specified kinds of debt, a typical example being a check for which there were not sufficient funds. Banks have more modern ways to take care of these problems today.

If you look in your California handbook, you will discover that only notaries affiliated with financial institutions may do protests.

I hope you know how to use the search feature in Adobe Reader. You should be searching your notary handbook before you search the Internet.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 8/27/13 2:05pm
Msg #482171

Run for your life.

Really. Run for your life. A few people who have identified themselves as sovereign citizens have been motivated by their views to murder people. This has been discussed in other threads.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/27/13 2:20pm
Msg #482176

Re: Run for your life.

Yes, the words "sovereign citizen" are red flags and something I would listen for. If I heard that, I wouldn't want to be associated with them - as I recently posted about in a different thread. I don't know anything about murder threats, but I see them as anarchists and would want to steer clear, just on principle.

Reply by Marazz/AZ on 8/27/13 2:29pm
Msg #482182

I think proceeding with caution is a good idea.

Most people, the vast majority, in foreclosure, are there because they have not made their payments for a long, long time. At one point I read that the average time lenders let people go is 24 months. So trying to "get out of" foreclosure after all that strikes me as really sketchy.

If someone is being foreclosed on despite making payments regularly and being in good graces with the lender, you don't hire a paralegal, you get a good attorney, you call the media and you call your senator.

So on the surface (based of course, solely on what has been posted here) this seems like some sort of dodge to find a legal technicality to delay or avoid foreclosure. I would speculate they are sending registered mail and then hoping to claim in court, that they were "ignored" by lenders (after 2+ years of not making payments). Or that lenders are not operating in good faith. I would be curious to know what some of the docs say.

That said, even if the above is true, as a notary I'd agree that you are correct that LEGALLY, you are only dealing with signatures. Does not prevent someone suing you, later. Does not prevent a lender (say a big one like BofA) from seeing your name on docs that cause them a hassle and possibly legal fees to respond to, and telling the big title companies, "DO NOT USE THIS NOTARY." Doesn't stop an angry person from showing up at your door a few months from now upset because you charged them $500 and they still lost their house etc. You have to decide if it's worth any (possible) risk that might arise down the line.

If it were me, I'd want to look into this guy's background as best I could. In AZ, all court records are public, I'd look him up and see if others are suing him. Does he have creditors taking him to court for not paying his own bills? Does he have 4 DUIs? Is he REALLY a paralegal, and how long has he been one? Did you ask him for any professional references, like lawyers he's worked for? How many people have actually been able to save their homes with his help? Where does he get his clients? Is he advertising on Craigslist or is he getting referrals from others thanks to all his success? How long has he been doing this particular type of work? Look him up in the property records in your county, has he been foreclosed upon?

Although any one of the above might be, or not be, a red flag by themselves, you need to look at the totality of what you're dealing with and decide if this is someone you are comfortable with. If you lie down with dogs, you might just get up with fleas. People have gone to jail (at least in AZ) for foreclosure scams, and while to my knowledge the notaries involved did not, who knows if they had to take time to testify, had their journals subpoenaed or lost how many nights of sleep.

If it were me, I'd flat out tell him: before I do business with you on a regular basis, and give discounts for your customers, I want to know more about your business. I want to see a set of these docs ahead of time and read them myself. I want to make sure this is something I'm comfortable with. If he's above board, he will not have a problem with that. If he's running a scam or doing stuff he doesn't want you to look too closely at, then he'll run away. And you'll have your answer. Good luck.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 5:16pm
Msg #482239

All good advice. I'm certainly proceeding with caution, but after speaking to him about it, I feel more assured that it's all on the up and up.

He's never tried to keep me from looking at anything, and at least 2 of his customers seemed very smart and aware of the documents they were signing.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 5:07pm
Msg #482234

New Info

So I called my customer directly and asked him about this.

He/I are not doing "notary protests." HIS clients have had notary protests served upon THEM, and he in turn is helping them fight back against the banks. Apparently this has to do with robo signing by banks and them sending false affidavits to these people. Here's an article I found talking about it: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/false-affidavits-foreclosures-what-robo-34185.html

He's actually a private investigator (not sure where I heard that he was a paralegal), who investigates these banks and these transactions and shows people how to fight back against them. He says that he was recently commended by the FDIC in his efforts and they are actually going to be sending him more cases to investigate.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 8/27/13 5:22pm
Msg #482243

Have you seen the FDIC commendation in writing?

There's an old saying: "Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see!"

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 5:30pm
Msg #482246

Re: Have you seen the FDIC commendation in writing?

No, nor does that affect whether what he's doing is legal or not. I just mentioned it in passing.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/27/13 5:22pm
Msg #482244

What's his name? n/m

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 5:31pm
Msg #482248

Re: What's his name?

With so many people jumping to conclusions and ready to hang him, I think I'll keep that to myself for now. If I find that he's doing something wrong, I'll let you know.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/27/13 5:39pm
Msg #482252

Nobody is ready to hang him, least of all me

What he does himself I could care less

Everyone is concerned about YOU..

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 5:49pm
Msg #482258

Re: Nobody is ready to hang him, least of all me

I appreciate that....honestly.

But there would be no concern for me if people didn't suspect him of wrong-doing, no?

Reply by Marazz/AZ on 8/27/13 5:59pm
Msg #482260

I don't think anyone here has enough info to make the call, one way or the other, as to whether he's on the up and up.

But the fact is most "foreclosure help" programs run by private individuals (not nonprofits or HUD) are scams. It just doesn't pass the smell test, sorry.

But it's your decision, clearly, and I truly hope it works out for you well.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 6:09pm
Msg #482263

Maybe so. I just find it a little odd that people feel the need to have strong opinions about a specific circumstance that they know little about. I totally appreciate all the advice and concern, though, and it has made me want to keep my eyes more open than I did before I asked the question.

I just feel more assured that it's okay now that I've spoken with him and read some articles on the subject.

Thank you all.

Reply by Darlin_AL on 8/27/13 7:04pm
Msg #482271

Eric, you stated you are recieving the

proof of mailing cards for this great nice guy. First he's a paralegal helping people, then he's an investigator....the fees you are getting as part of this scam are going to come in handy for your defense.
PI's have licenses, FDIC--really? with individuals paying $500 at whack to you, I can only imagine what this nice man is charging them. Just here on this public forum you have truly incriminated yourself when the hammer comes down, you will be named as part of the scam. Might want to consider increasing the E &O coverage you carry with some of your windfall, plus purchase that notary signing agent coverage also. Except they won't pay after they investigate your part of this scam & determine you had knowledge.
Please don't take this as me being mean, but really the Federal sentences are ridiculously long because from what you said your participation with the green cards is the mail fraud part. You are really playing with dynamite but maybe its not too late. Just the few brief circumstances you described paint a really big picture. It's not odd, we're trying to help you lookout for yourself & stay out of jail.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 9:35pm
Msg #482298

Re: Eric, you stated you are recieving the

That is an absolutely ludicrous posting...what is your problem? Why do you have the need to criticize based on incomplete information. Are you the Notary Rotary police? I'm sorry if my information confused you.

How else can I take this other than you being mean? You have no idea what you're talking about. You're basing your speculative opinion on a handful of items here, all of which don't complete the entire picture of what's going on. This topic was about collecting the full fee on multiple notarizations and has turned into a soap opera about a situation in which none of you are involved.

People inquired about it, so I tried to fill them in the best I could. I had, and continue to have no intention of trying to figure out the legalities of this based on a bunch of notaries who think they're legal experts.

I'm sorry, I was fine until I came to this post. You're not helping if you don't know what you're talking about.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 8/27/13 9:37pm
Msg #482301

I'm done w/ this thread after Darlin_Al's post. Thanks. n/m

Reply by rolomia on 8/28/13 4:07am
Msg #482314

I would demand an easy-to-understand explanation from the

...person that hired you, as well as a copy of the documents. Then, fax a copy of said form to the legal dept. of your state's SOS for review and followup comments. If your contact doesn't like that, quit working for that person. Provide future clients with your contact info., asking them to please call you if they experience any difficulty with the documents that you notarize.

That way, you can followup on the status of their situation, which will help you to avoid unnecessary legal exposure, if you are later called to testify against the person who hired you, assuming that any aspect of said process turns out to be illegal, after all. Better to be a protected whistle-blower than to be seen as a willing accomplice/conspirator. Good luck! JMHO

Reply by rolomia on 8/28/13 4:54am
Msg #482318

Re: I'm done w/ this thread after Darlin_Al's post. Thanks.

Follow-up, anyway. NotRot members invested their time/energy/experience/knowledge/wisdom to provide you with advice which you clearly solicited by your initial post. Though, I can understand how you might have become annoyed with such a long thread.

Still, I hope to hear that you obtained concrete proof that the PI who hired you is operating 100% within the law and that no negative consequences will affect your notary commission. But, if alleviating our concerns for your welfare by posting a brief, follow-up post is too much work, you might want to consider another profession. JMHO