Posted by Tudi/CA on 8/16/13 11:40pm
Msg #480773
Is this a new trend?
Over the past several months, I've started to see an increase in cases where the document packages are being sent directly to the person signing the documents and NOT to the NOTARY. The first time I'm viewing the documents is at the signing table. I'm wondering if this is some sort of new trend? Personally, I don't like it. I prefer to review the documents in a quiet setting devoid of distractions (at my home) and place my "sign here" "date here" sticky tabs and have time to call the SS or Title company with any questions I may have before I meet with the signers. Trying to review the document for the first time at the signing table while dealing with distractions at the signers' home is just not the best way to turn out an "error free" signing. I think someone's trying to save money by saying "you don't have to print, so will you do it for less?". If the package is sent directly to me so that I can review and prepare it, then fine. But what's up with them sending the docs to ONLY the borrower/seller/purchaser ahead of time and NOT to the NOTARY? It makes for a really hectic signing experience and along with that comes errors. Has anyone else experienced this lately?
I'm thinking of turning these type of signings down in the future. Too hectic, and if there are any errors in the documents (from the Title company side) it's a real mess to only find out only when you're at the signing table. What are your thoughts on this?
| Reply by HSH/WA on 8/17/13 12:01am
Msg #480776
Re: The BOs don't always read them ahead of time. That
would also be a plus if they took care of all the questions before we got there.
| Reply by Tudi/CA on 8/17/13 12:54am
Msg #480782
Re: The BOs don't always read them ahead of time. That
I had a signing tonight that was a 3 ring circus. Three investors signing on the same property (buyers), all chatting with each other (half in English half in their own language) about investments and travel arrangements for destinations at the end of the world for tomorrow, thumbing through the documents they were supposed to have read prior to my arrival while also doing the signing, kids running around the house screaming/playing, glass of water spilled at the table narrowly missing the signed documents, phone calls to their realtor to arrange a gardner for the property they're signing for, asking realtor how much rent they can get off the property their signing for. All at the same time, doing the signing. And this is the first chance I've had to even look at the documents, with all of this commotion going on. And on top of all of this, I was asked to remove my shoes...they don't like anyone walking on their floors with shoes.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/17/13 12:43am
Msg #480780
I prefer them to come to me, also. I don't mess with stickies, but I like to complete most of the notary certificates (which I frequently need to replace) in advance and give it at least a quick once over to see if there's anything unusual. Another major reason is that until we see the package, we have no idea how much time it's going to take. These days, package sizes can range from a small seller's package to a huge purchase. (I'm not seeing too many refi's lately...) I'm also seeing lots of out-of-state properties, which sometimes come with surprises.
The biggest potential problem, though, is for a borrower who decides to "save time" and get started before you get there... Can you spell "n i g h t m a r e"?? 
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/17/13 12:50am
Msg #480781
Or the borrower who calls and say docs never arrived when they've actually been laying on the front porch for two days where Fed Ex left them. "Oh, we never go in through the front door," they say.
| Reply by Notarysigner on 8/17/13 1:47am
Msg #480785
I was told these are called "mail-aways" where
they tell the borrower to find a notary. As JanetK SAYS, can you spell nightmare.
The last one I did (I posted about it but didn't refer to it as a mailaway) was with a police Chief who didn't think it was necessary for me to see all the Docs. O.K. so I work on the ones that said "to be notarized" and that's that....NOT! He signed his the day before he called me. TC CALLS ME, he signed one date, I notarized for the date we did it. Redraw, had to go back out, this time I got the Docs.....paid twice.
| Reply by Karla/OR on 8/17/13 2:54am
Msg #480786
I have had a couple lately where the docs are sent directly to the BO. I accepted a discounted fee. Not liking that as well as what a few of you have mentioned about not being able to preview the docs, start the notary certs, call with any questions prior to departing to the closing.
I feel unorganized and uncomfortable at the closing table when this happens. I try not to portray this to the BO but explain that my norm is to print and preview them before coming. It is doubly difficult when you have a closing similar to the three investors and all the chaos going on mentioned in the above post.
A perfect situation for sure to check the docs at the time they sign as well as at the end.
| Reply by rolomia on 8/17/13 6:48am
Msg #480789
When an email copy of loan docs. or an overnight copy arrive hours before I must leave for the appointment, then, I'm able to conduct a cursory review of said documents, beforehand. However, an in-depth review would take longer than the actual appointment.
95%+ of signing orders are e-docs. only.And, usually, I only receive an email copy of said loan docs. within 30 mins. or less of the appt. time. I've only received an overnight copy, twice, during the preceding 8+ yrs. Most overnight docs. are sent directly to the BO's.
And, the TC's/SS's all seemingly have policies against the NSA forwarding said e-docs. to the BO's email so that they may review same before I arrive. I believe their hope is that the BO's will be more likely to proceed with the loan, if they find errors, once you are at the table with them then they might do if they find said errors before your arrival. And, they're probably right.
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/17/13 7:48am
Msg #480792
I had a lot of these several years ago. Docs being sent to borrower. Sometimes the SS or Title company would call me to go and do the signing, sometimes the borrowers would call me. I never had any problems with them. This was in the days before we had to print out the docs.
I did have a couple where the borrowers had signed the docs before I got there, I just had them re-sign the ones that had jurats on them.
| Reply by Paul2_FL on 8/17/13 8:23am
Msg #480794
Trudi it's not a new trend unless it's happening with clients that you have done a lot of edocs business with in the past. Like you I don't particularly like doing these and would prefer to get the docs sent to me so I can at least peruse them before heading out for the signing. As long as you are getting paid well for doing them I wouldn't turn them away. Also, the fact that they sent the docs to the borrower means that at least the docs will be available versus waiting for edocs that are late where you won't have time to review or prep anyway.
| Reply by Robert522TX on 8/17/13 9:19am
Msg #480799
I've had several of these lately.
On one of them the docs to be signed were overnighted to the borrower, and they were emailed a link to download and print their copies. The problem was they didn't have a computer, and then complained because they couldn't view them on their phones. Had to call and arrange for another copy to be sent to them....
| Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 8/17/13 9:43am
Msg #480801
This is not new!
When I first started in 2002, this was pretty much the norm. Docs were overnighted to the borrower. Often, you didn't until you arrived at the borrower's house that this was a piggyback! Surprise! Many late nights were spent playing catch up with this system.
| Reply by MW/VA on 8/17/13 11:57am
Msg #480805
I agree with Shoshana. By the time I got into the biz,
edocs became the norm. Many notaries complained that the docs used to be overnighted. I only get a few that aren't edocs. Why not, it probably costs them less to have me print than to ship them. Also, things are now more last minute. Shipping the docs means they have to be ready at least the day before--hah!!
I like to print, stack the docs in a signing order, and be somewhat familiar with what's in the pkg. Because of that, I don't like going into a signing "cold" because I feel I'm unprepared.
Pros & cons on either side of this issue, of course.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/17/13 6:37pm
Msg #480827
Re: This is not new!
This is just a nitpick, but the OP didn't ask if this was "new", but rather if it was a "new trend". Subtle difference, admittedly, but a significant one I think. The trend, for a while, was away from overnight docs to edocs, then that became the norm for many years, as most of us know. I think over-night docs may, in fact, become the trend again, as business slows down, at least for the larger companies (or those that mostly operate locally), if they can ship packages cheaply enough to save money on that (vs. paying us to print them). That will remain to be seen.
The big question will be if they send docs to us or if they go directly to the borrowers. In my previous experience, I recall most docs coming to me, rather than going to borrowers, but I could be wrong.
BTW, just this morning I ran into another example of why docs *should* come to us and not go to the borrowers. I had a late morning signing with over-nighted docs to me. It was a 1st and a HELOC. On the HELOC, the lenders instructions very clearly outlined the requirement that each borrower receive two copies of the RTC page, but there was only one copy in each set.
Since I took the time to prep the package, I was able to make additional copies so we would have had enough. If the docs went directly to the borrowers, there wouldn't have been much I could have done about that, unless they had equipment to make copies - which usually takes a lot longer than if I do it.
(Can't count how many times lately - even with people who have equipment to make copies - the printer is out of ink... Typically comes up when trying to copy IDs.)
| Reply by jnew on 8/17/13 10:49pm
Msg #480853
Good Point about RTC
The settlement agent is responsible for the number of documents contained in the package. So if they violate the 2 copies to borrower requirement, I would think the notary would be off the hook. Also, I would explain less when not able to review documents prior to signing. The only real problem involved for me would be the notary instructions being part of the package instead of being given to me prior to signing. I would take a few minutes to read the notary instructions thoroughly before commencing the signing.
| Reply by Darlin_AL on 8/17/13 12:03pm
Msg #480807
re: distractions-Tudi, you need to establish ALPHA DOG in
a situation like that. Part of the job is managing the signing. I identify who's signers & assign them seats on either side of me. I commence the process with my usual introduction of myself, brief description of my duties for the signing. I do often have to suggest (even though I mentioned it during the confirmation call) more lighting-----a night signing recently I asked they bring a table lamp to the table & remove the shade, as was it was terribly dim there, even with the 4 10watt bulbs in the chandelier (ha!). The husband could not see where he was signing, even though it was tabbed & pointed to. A recent signing I just plowed on through passing & describing docs even though the realtor would not shut-up to one of the purchasers. Sometimes you have to press-on when you are in the presence of someone who does not know how to behave. She was still jabbering when we were finished with the documents I was responsible for, so I thanked everyone & excused myself. As the Signing Agent, it is your "meeting" and there are things you can do to set the tone as "business".
| Reply by Karla/OR on 8/17/13 1:06pm
Msg #480810
Re: re: distractions-Tudi, you need to establish ALPHA DOG in
Great post! Loved the part about asking for additional lighting! My eye sight is not the best and then to add dim lightning into the factor, ugh!!!! I will request as you did, additional lighting in the future, if need be. I agree with you that "it is your 'meeting'" but I am still respectful of being in someone else's home. I recently found the nerve to request that we sit at a kitchen or dining table at the point when they directing me to their couch and coffee table location!!! Most times now I will mention this when I confirm the appointment. Thanks.
| Reply by jba/fl on 8/17/13 1:33pm
Msg #480812
Re: re: distractions-Tudi, you need to establish ALPHA DOG in
My line, delivered jokingly: You (Bo) are going to want a table to save your back or we can use the hood of my car.
They always opt for the table.
| Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 8/17/13 2:07pm
Msg #480814
Not just saving your back - don't forget about your knees!
I'm 5'7'' w/ a bad knee. One signingthat made a coffee table a no-no was when I had 5 signers! They had a VERY LOW Oriental-style table - my feet barely fit underneath! Some of them were translating to the others. When I got up, I think I lost a couple of inches in my back (bad also) and my knee was soooo stiff, I was limping! Never again!
| Reply by Karla/OR on 8/17/13 2:31pm
Msg #480818
Re: Not just saving your back - don't forget about your knees!
Boy can I relate! I have difficult time getting up form a kitchen or dining room chair after sitting for an hour+. Bad eyes, knees, and hips. For sure, getting old is not for the faint. I hope to keep doing notary work for at least the next five years, God willing.
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/17/13 2:17pm
Msg #480816
Good one, jba!
I'll remember that line. (And I'm sure we've all signed on the hood of a car; I did once because the woman was a hoarder and I couldn't even get into her house. Seriously). Anyway, I've been through the sofa torture so many times, that when they even point at the sofa I just say no. They act like they're going to be serving cocktails instead of conducting a business transaction.
Sometimes there's just no way out. One borrower flat out said they didn't have table (big lie). So I sank down on one end of this big-a**, ugly, overstuffed, puffy sofa from which I was sure I would never be able to extricate myself. Wife sat down next to me, thank goodness; but hubby sat at the complete opposite end at least five feet away as the crow flies and clearly expected me to get up and hand him docs each time. Since my No. 1 sofa signing rule is that I never bend, extend or make any movements beyond what one might make in a normal card game, he soon disappeared into the kitchen and brought out a chair (obviously from the kitchen table, which no doubt was covered with so much crappola that it was unusable). He put the chair in front of me, sat down and I handed him a doc to sign ... on his lap, I guess. I finally gave him my notary journal to write on since he seemed incapable of getting a magazine or book or something.. What an idiot.
| Reply by Karla/OR on 8/17/13 2:32pm
Msg #480819
OMG! What a nightmare. U earned every cent of that one! n/m
| Reply by rolomia on 8/18/13 6:01am
Msg #480872
Message Deleted
This message has been deleted by a forum moderator.
Reason: Author Request - Special Exception
| Reply by rolomia on 8/18/13 6:04am
Msg #480874
Not you, GOLDGIRL. I'm referring to the idiot in your post.
I didn't notice that my post title could be misread by the way it was formatted until AFTER I submitted same. Sorry about that. (sheepish grin)
| Reply by rolomia on 8/18/13 6:06am
Msg #480875
GOLDGIRL_CA: I consider you to be a great & wise NSA. n/m
| Reply by rolomia on 8/18/13 6:10am
Msg #480876
Regarding the idiot mentioned in GOLDGIRL's reply to jba n/m
| Reply by rolomia on 8/18/13 6:13am
Msg #480877
Above-post title was intended as first reply to GOLDGIRL n/m
| Reply by 101livescan on 8/18/13 9:05am
Msg #480884
Re: Good one, jba!
Been there, done that...makes you wonder, how did this property appraise out to get a refi approved?
Lights, camera, signing table free of peanut butter and jelly, rock and roll!
| Reply by rolomia on 8/19/13 1:07pm
Msg #481000
101livescan: your post made me hungry for peanut butter.
Thanks! lol. Sadly, my local Wal-Mart's price went up on peanut butter and on most other grocery items. It may have had something to do with the news report I heard last night that Wal-Mart's stock share price fell short of analysts expectations during the last quarter. Also, same-store sales were down for the last quarter, compared to the same time, last year. And, as Wal-Mart goes, so goes the rest of our nation's grocers.
So, I make too much money to qualify for federal assistance, like food stamps, pan handling is illegal where I live, signing orders are down (and, not JUST b/c of increased int. rates, either), newbies are saturating the signing agent business at a rapid pace (some of whom are good but more who aren't), TC's are farming out orders to SS's to decrease THEIR workload, SS's are reducing their pay rates in order to increase their profit spread, ATTY's are filing legislation to make loans off-limit to NSA's in states where push-back is weak against their evil efforts, and ObamaCare may triple American's already over-priced health insurance premiums.
Yep! It's gonna be a great year! Woo hoo. Pardon me while I drink the kool aid. JMHO
| Reply by HisHughness on 8/19/13 1:17pm
Msg #481002
Re: 101livescan: your post made me hungry for peanut butter.
***ObamaCare may triple American's already over-priced health insurance premiums.***
Obamacare will extend insurance to 30 million uninsured who do not have it, expand the coverage of those who do to include preexisting illnesses and college-age children, and reduce the cost of insurance to those heretofore saddled with the exorbitant costs foisted off on the public by insurance companies whose commitment is to profits rather than people. It will raise the cost of insurance to those who do not have it and now must get it, instead of depending on emergency room care for catastrophic illnesses that we then wind up paying for.
What Obamacare unfortunately will not do is insure against the scaremongering by those who oppose it for political reasons.
This discussion, including the comment that evoked this response, belongs in Just Politics. And please, rightwingers, do not defend it on the basis of "It was just a joke." There are other, actually humorous ways, of making the point the poster sought to make.
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