Posted by PegiT_MN on 8/31/13 10:28am
Msg #482782

Not Sure What To Do Here - Do I Not Go To The Closing?

Good morning everyone. I have a closing in two more hours with a gentleman that I have already confirmed is single. When I printed the documents, however, I noticed that there is a woman's name on the spousal docs. I called the borrower and was informed that "Hilda" is the name of his deceased wife who passed away two years ago. He then informed me that he sent the death certificate to the lender and someone was supposed to be working on this. However, I received docs with her name on them. I tried to contact the hiring party (a title company) but no one is there and no one is answering any of the cell phone numbers listed.

I don't really feel comfortable making the decision on behalf of the lender and the title company, but I am guessing that the proper protocol would be to let the borrower know that we cannot proceed with the closing with the documents that were sent to me and that I am not able to get in contact with anyone because it is the weekend and that his lender will be contacting him with a new closing date once the documents have been corrected.

We can't just cross of her name......so I am hoping that the title company won't be upset with me for not going to the closing. I will e mail the closing coordinator who sent me the docs and let them know what has happened. Is this how you would handle this situation? Any other suggestions?

Thank you so much for your help.

Reply by Roger_OH on 8/31/13 10:37am
Msg #482783

I would go ahead and complete the assignment for him, as it's the last day of the month and the docs are likely date-sensitive.

The correction agreement in the package should allow the lender/TC to correct the documents that have his late spouse on them.

Reply by Carolyn Breckenridge on 8/31/13 10:40am
Msg #482785

yes, but the mortgage is incorrect. My bet is the lender had the death certificate and got lost in the scuffle, but the title company never saw it.

IMO, I would have an issue too.

Reply by JPH13/MO on 8/31/13 10:42am
Msg #482786

Does the loan have a right to cancel or not?

If it does not, I guess I would go ahead as Roger mentioned just in case they could fix it all later, as they may be able to work tomorrow to fund the loan then.

If there is a right to cancel, see if there is an interest rate lock doc within the package and if they have time left on the rate lock, I would still cancel as I don't think they will be able to correct these docs, I think they will need to be redrawn.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/31/13 11:17am
Msg #482791

I agree with Roger & would complete the signing. Worst case

scenario it's a redraw & you get paid a 2nd fee. You obviously know the wife's name is on there by mistake, and nothing shady is going on. A delay could cost him a rate lock, etc.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/31/13 1:02pm
Msg #482807

If he had a death certificate (no you don't have to see it)

and told you he sent it to someone then do it. You call call the county clerk later and ask how do they handle situations like this if you want to know. The corrections agreements should cover this so don't worry about it.

Reply by JPH13/MO on 8/31/13 10:37am
Msg #482784

I would cancel with borrower

They obviously need to remove the name of his spouse, who passed away, from the docs. If you went you could try for a trip and doc fee, but really, I would just cancel and let him know that the docs need to be redone minus her name on them, and that the lender will be contacting him to set up a new signing time.

If you don't charge them anything for this, hopefully they will be very happy that you canceled and give you first dibs on the new signing date and time for this loan. Of course you can never know for certain that someone won't end up mad at you, but it isn't YOUR fault the docs are incorrect and that you are smart enough to know they need to be redone.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 8/31/13 10:43am
Msg #482787

Re: I would cancel with borrower

Thank you. I think you are correct. No correction agreement is going to fix the fact that her name is on the mortgage and needs to be removed before it can be recorded correctly with the county. This title company is one of my number one clients so I hope they will respect the fact that I am having to make a judgment call on this one. I know they will give me first dibs on the new signing date. They are pretty good to me......they even gave me extra money for it being a Saturday and for it being in downtown St. Paul and I may have to pay to park.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/31/13 1:05pm
Msg #482810

Re: I would cancel with borrower Think about it PegiT

They will simply replace the first page of the deed ( sign sig, no stamp ) with a "corrected one" unless you staple the deed.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/31/13 10:46am
Msg #482788

I would go - if the gentleman has another death

certificate, maybe you can collect that too - or title can always get a certified copy from vital records when they record.

You tried - no one responded - do not alter the docs - go get his signature, they can record the death certificate and you may be good. Worst case scenario you get paid for this job AND the resign.

Good Luck.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 8/31/13 10:57am
Msg #482790

I would go also.

Obviously in your certs, the wife needs to be crossed out. Not having him sign today may do more harm to him loan wise, then not having anything signed. Title can probably fix this after the fact, but you don't give them a chance if you have Nothing signed. It may be a mute point, but you don't know that.

Reply by rolomia on 8/31/13 11:30am
Msg #482795

Yes! Go! You already agreed to & Title may already be aware-

-of said error. Since you told them you would go, you owe it to them to follow through. The mistake isn't yours to correct. Only the errors on one set of docs. are yours to correct. And, you should correct said errors on one set of docs. by printing two copies of the critical documents. One one copy, cross out & initial the error, making a correction, if a correct entry is possible.
Just writing the word deceased may not be enough. On the second copy, don't correct said error.

Just have the borrower sign & date & then, you notarize. Put the 2nd copy of each matching page behind the same-said document in the stack. When you get back to your home/office, fax or scan & email entire package back to them. Since it's the weekend & Monday's Labor Day, if it's a refinanced loan, the three day RTC may start today or Tuesday. But, usually, Labor Day isn't counted. I say usually b/c each company makes up their own rules as they go along.

But, Sunday is not counted (unless that has changed since I last checked). Of course, if it isn't a refi, this is a moot point. But, the reason I'm suggesting this is b/c you might be able to save Title a shipping charge if they don't want said docs. due to said error. But, again, that's not your call to make. Good luck. JMHO

Reply by Darlin_AL on 8/31/13 11:54am
Msg #482798

Mtg no good & all that goes with it..

Also, maybe they had a joint survivorship deed & maybe not. I mean, title coulda been in her name only. Doing the signing & hoping for a re-sign of something you know is incorrect appears very cheesy, plus stressing the signer-out.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/31/13 1:03pm
Msg #482809

This may be true in Alabama, but you can't say

the mortgage is no good across the board - here in FL all that would have to be done is record a death certificate - that would take care of it.

Since they saw the death certificate and proceeded to draw docs and schedule the closing, I'm guessing title has done their research and has this under control. I would not jeopardize the rate lock or the loan itself by not going.

I do feel bad for Peg that title hung her out to dry on this.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/31/13 11:56am
Msg #482799

Absolutely go

I suspect your two hours is already up .... and you seem determined not to go .... so all of us telling you to go is probably a moot point. That said, your decision may be based in large part on your knowledge and experience with lender/TC laws and protocol in your state. But in my neck of the woods, something like this can be "corrected." I wouldn't think of not going based on a vesting error. It just wouldn't be a big deal (in my experience as a CA NSA for 10 years). I wouldn't touch any of the docs where her name appears except to cross it out on your notarial cert. Just pretend she's not there (which she's not).

Of course, anything can happen (and probably will!). Lender may require a redraw; but most likely TC would fix the vesting. Deed could be recorded with the death cert, if the lender can ever find it. I think you're taking a big chance deciding on your own not to go.... it's not really *your decision,* and nobody can hold you responsible for making the wrong one or even the right one. But again ... that's based on my experience ... yours may be different.

Reply by Blueink_TN on 8/31/13 12:17pm
Msg #482804

Definitely go and get those docs signed

If it can be corrected -then the loan closes. If it can't, then they will redraw and send you back out. This is not your call. Good Luck.

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 8/31/13 12:30pm
Msg #482805

Get the docs signed

You made an attempt to contact the title company. Sign the person in front of you.

Reply by anotaryinva on 8/31/13 1:23pm
Msg #482811

Re: Get the docs signed

Go, you have absolutely nothing to lose but the borrower might if his rate lock is expiring with rates going up. handle it the way you would a split signing, even if the appointment time has passed I would call the borrower and try to arrange a time for today.

Reply by anotaryinva on 8/31/13 1:25pm
Msg #482812

Re: Get the docs signed

You say you tried calling, what about emailing or also calling the lender, I'd call every single number I could find on the HUD or anywhere else in the package, maybe the loan app has the LO listed.

Reply by Darlin_AL on 8/31/13 2:26pm
Msg #482816

Be sure & update us when you hear back from TC ! n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 8/31/13 6:36pm
Msg #482826

I've had this happen before, I have the person sign and collect a copy of the death certificate and return with the signed docs. Never had a problem doing this or having to go back and re-sign the person. Once I was asked to go back with a "Quit Claim" deed taking the deceased party's name off title and they paid for the additional trip.

Reply by Carolyn Breckenridge on 8/31/13 8:40pm
Msg #482838

I hope they did that just to clarify the marital status of the person.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/2/13 8:29am
Msg #482926

QCD has nothing to do with marital status - it is

a transference of property from one (or many) individual(s) to another (or many) individual(s).

Reply by Teresa/FL on 9/2/13 8:11pm
Msg #482988

I have seen corrective QCDs to correct marital status and/or

title holder names.

I don't know if it is appropriate in the event of the death of a title holder. It is possible that the act of recording the death certificate would serve the same purpose.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/2/13 10:31pm
Msg #482993

Thanks, Teresa...I've just not seen. I think death cert.

takes care of a lot of things in FL.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/31/13 9:06pm
Msg #482839

Lots of opinions here, with very few in doubt - but it's all speculation, because I didn't see anyone from your state chime in (that I recall) and there's no way to know how the lender is going to react, unless someone has direct experience with that company - and maybe I missed it, but I don't recall seeing any mention of the lender name.

It's clearly too late now, but for future reference, here's the logic I would use in a situation like this, where you're faced with a decision without all the facts and no ability to get guidance from someone with authority for that package:

First, ask yourself what are the odds for a good outcome for each of the various options you have. You basically have two choices: to go or not to go. If you go to the appointment, and collect the signatures of the surviving spouse, it either will or will not fly. Does anyone here now which it is at this point? I doubt it. However, if you do that, there is at least some undefinable chance that it's fixable and the loan will still fund as scheduled. You apparently don't have enough info to decide what the probability is, but I think most would agree that there is at least SOME chance it could be saved.

On the other hand, if you decide to take it upon yourself to NOT go, you have a 100% probability that the loan will NOT fund on time. Whether or not you end up getting paid for a 2nd trip should not be the deciding factor, imo. How does that extra cost compare to the potential extra costs of a delayed funding? Again, probably not something you can know, so it shouldn't enter the equation.

The wife's passing is a detail that someone should have figured out in advance, so it shouldn't be on your shoulders to be responsible for the outcome, as long as you do what you're hired to do. It might even be the fault of the gentleman himself, if he didn't mention his wife's death to his LO - although I can't imagine how that wouldn't have come up when filling out a loan app!!

Bottom line, we can get ourselves in trouble when we start to second guess what to do about something we perceive as a major flub in a set of documents. And, yes, please let us know the outcome.

I should probably add, though, that it's inevitable that some client somewhere will conclude that this is the wrong choice, that you should have known ________ (fill in the blank). As a general rule, I don't buy that. I think that's nearly always just a ploy from someone who doesn't want to be accountable or who is afraid of ruffling any feathers with one of their clients. (I'm not saying, though, that there won't be exceptions. That's where experience pays...)

Reply by Gerry Grummons on 8/31/13 9:35pm
Msg #482841

Had one much like that on a Re-Fi. Spouse had passed many years ago, but name still on Mgt and RTC and TIL. Title was made aware during application process, but failed to correct. Title fixed
that, but then added new spouse (marriage & divorce) had to track down 2nd spouse to obtain
QCD to clean up title. 3 trips to get the job done right. Never know what you will run into. Did
get properly compensated for the extra work.

Reply by 101livescan on 9/1/13 8:16am
Msg #482857

My own experience with a deceased borrower being on title

This has happened twice. Once with a Wells Fargo, four borrowers on a huge horse ranch refi. When I arrived and only three borrowers were present, I inquired about the fourth, a wife of one of the gentlemen. "Should we tell her, you mean you don't know? She died last February in a horse fall accident. She had a heart attack and fell to the ground." She was found hours later when her horse came back to the barn without her.

Wells Fargo LO of course knew this, but UWing didn't. So I returned three days later with a redraw for only the three surviving borrowers, and Affidavit of Death of a Joint Tenant.

Many years prior, I attended a signing with a CitiMortgage refi, I had confirmed the appointment with the borrower by leaving a voice mail, but never heard back so I attended any way. Turns out Mr. Borrower had passed ten years before and never been removed from title. That was also a redraw.

I guess it depends on the lender, and everything is different now with all the new rules and regulations, so yes, I would definitely attend the signing, especially if I couldn't reach the lender on a holiday weekend.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/1/13 8:20am
Msg #482858

I would have gotten the docs signed/notarized

If I couldn't reach anyone at the TC, having the docs signed/notarized gives the borrower a 50/50 chance that the loan will close and fund. Not having docs signed/notarized gives the borrower a 100% chance that the loan will NOT close and fund.

When unable to reach someone at the TC, it's best to give the borrower at least a 50/50 chance that the loan will close and fund and get the docs signed/notarized. Don't strike through anything - the TC wants *clean* docs.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/1/13 5:38pm
Msg #482879

Any update on this? Did you go? n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 9/2/13 7:32am
Msg #482925

MW - where I am, today is the holiday. Hold your horses LOL n/m

Reply by Darlin_AL on 9/2/13 12:31pm
Msg #482955

Did someone actually suggest a QCD? w/one party passed-away? n/m