Posted by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/2/13 8:01pm
Msg #479121

Radical proactive proposal ... seek feedback

OK, desktopfull agrees with my "no response to newbie posts," so here's the plan:

This has got to be self-policing by all of us: Whenever a newbie posts, anyone who wants to reply in a positive, thoughtful manner, either directing them to a message number and describing what they'll find there, or who wants to offer helpful advice in a friendly manner, go for it! Example: "Welcome to the world of professional loan signing/notarydom. We were all in your shoes once! Read the forum every day backward and forward, and you'll find valuable, wonderful information that will answer your question(s). Msg# XXXXXX addresses the very issue you asked about how to set up a business. We wish you the best of luck!"

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will the following replies or anything like them be tolerated:

"I learned my business from the school of hard knocks, and you need to do the same."
"This business is very competitive, and no notary is going to hand you their client list."
"Use the orange search button."
"Google is your friend."
"You are obviously unprepared to become a notary as evidenced by your bonehead questions. You need to study more, research more, take more classes. Nobody is going to hand you the answers."
"Nobody is going to mentor you. Too many privacy issues."
"Nobody is going to mentor you so that you can become their competition."
"Your question was just asked by another newbie two days ago. Don't you read the forum?"
"We're tired of answering the same questions. Do your research."
"What make you think you're entitled to ... (fill in the blank)."
"Don't quit your day job."
"If you've been in real estate (or lending or title) for XX years, why are you asking such stupid questions?"

All these remarks and similar ones (you know what I mean) are guaranteed to offend the tender sensibilities of the newbie, who, inevitably, will complain, whine or cry about how mean everybody is. (See Mindy Msg #478969 for most recent example). This, then, provokes everybody else to chime in either defending or blasting the newbie and/or defending or blasting the veterans, and away we go.... again. The cycle of whining begins anew!

To put an end to this repetitive aggravation, only kind, positive, softly worded responses will be allowed. No response at all might be preferred (forcing the newbie to actually read the forum!); but certainly none that would tick off your average newbie. Veteran notaries who post disagreeable replies will be publicly called out and reprimanded for contributing to the cycle of whining.

Want to give it a try?

BTW: It's still "anything goes" among veteran notaries (which, I'm sure, I'm about to find out).

Reply by sueharke on 8/2/13 8:30pm
Msg #479122

Good idea. I do wonder what to do with newbies who need more direct answers to their questions from veterans (as polite answers may not be understood)? Should these be PM?

Reply by ME/NJ on 8/2/13 8:44pm
Msg #479123

We have found the head of the PC police

Your kidding, people have rights to express how ever they feel. Do you own this board? Nope

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/2/13 9:13pm
Msg #479125

Re: We have found the head of the PC police

Granted, ME/NJ, the plan requires a great deal of self-censorship to work and self-control by veteran notaries who, like you, want to say what they please, when they please. Obviously, your attitude would be counterproductive.

The goal is to break the cycle of newbies complaining about disagreeable notaries. If we got in the habit of not posting "how ever they feel" on this subject, NR might become a less hostile place for everybody.

Yes, we have "rights" but sometimes it comes to the point where we need to find solutions to the exercise of the rights if all it does is cause endless negativity and recrimination.

In any case, you obviously missed the point. Thank you anyway for your feedback.

Reply by Christine/OK on 8/3/13 11:19am
Msg #479164

LIKE!! :D n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/2/13 9:21pm
Msg #479126

You must have tripped and fallen down just at the

right time Mike..I can't believe that shot right over your head.

Reply by Clem/CA on 8/2/13 8:55pm
Msg #479124

Monkey Suit and a cardboard sign

Reply by Les_CO on 8/2/13 9:22pm
Msg #479127

The last I heard this was Harry’s site? Although I don’t agree with all of his policies, he makes it pretty clear what the rules here are, and it seems to me he’s done a pretty good job for many years. I suggest you start your own site, and then you can make the rules.

Reply by JanelWI on 8/2/13 11:04pm
Msg #479131

"To put an end to this repetitive aggravation, only kind, positive, softly worded responses will be allowed".

I don't really find comments such as, "use the orange search button" offensive. As one example.

Tip toeing around on egg shells to avoid hurting their delicate sensibilities is like saying we can't praise the good students for fear it might make the lesser students feel bad. This is life people. There is always a bigger fish. Personally, I am glad for that because it shows me what is possible. I like to analyze what they are doing to find out what might work for me. That is what this forum to me is all about. It is a wealth of information even if you don't ask a question.

I don't consider comments that stop and make someone think about the fact that this business is serious, it is not point and sign, we are not and never will be "just notaries", this takes years of hard work, dedication, education, drive, ambition, consistent marketing, perseverance, professionalism, knowledge, accuracy, and above all respect for the clients and their customers. We are not "just a notary" or "just" anything. Some newcomers are unfortunately under the misguided impression that "notaries" close loans. I don't know about you, but the last time I took my notarial law test there was not one word about loan documents, or the industry compliance, or the loan process mentioned even in the slightest.

You don't get to the head of the class by doing what is expected of you. You get there by doing "more" than what is expected, and you should not expect your hand to be held in the process. This forum is loaded with exceptionally experienced agents that can pick out in the first few words of the sentence if a person is genuinely trying to educate themselves, or they are just here for the "easy" answer, rather than working for it.

We are also independent contractors and many of us are considered business owners. We are not just the job we do, we are "everything" to our business if it is going to succeed. They better get used to being a self starter, and pull from their already existing skill set to enhance the service they provide. Think out of the box! Set out to contribute to this industry rather than just becoming another "notary", jumping into an already saturated pool to scrape up the bread crumbs low ball signing services offer them while they bottom feed off a newbie's stupidity, and then laugh hysterically over it when they cut the check 60, 90, 120 days later....or never! I have no interest in encouraging that to continue by handing out easy answers so that this abysmal cycle can continue. I do not "Welcome" that.

I agree that it does not have to be unpleasant when one asks a question. There is no doubt a little more kindness and tolerance in the world would not hurt and nor would it here, or on any forum. I agree that once way back I was too very new. I was also once 5, 15, and 25....at some point, you have to grow up and be the driver of your own life, find out what you are made of and realize that life is not a series of questions and given answers. Most of the time, we have to do the work and sometimes the answers are not all "kind, positive, or softly worded."

My momma always told me before you ask a question, look in the mirror and ask yourself, "Did I do the best effort I could to honor myself and those I seek the answers from? Did I actually read the chapter before I answered the quiz questions? Or, did I just go to the questions and go back and search for the answers without doing any real reading at all? She said the order of things, are very important because that is your rock, your foundation, your strength for the future. It will always be with you and you will have that strength, knowledge and foundation to pull from when things get tough. Of course, then, I was a teenager and looked at her like she had three heads and rolled my eyes :-)

But as I matured, suddenly her head came back into focus and I learned it is about accountability, integrity, and respect for ones self. I don't expect anyone to hand me anything until I have shaken that tree and read every leaf before I say...."ok...I need a bit of help here" We are all capable of much more if we step outside of our comfort zones, and so that goes for the newcomers. Shake the tree kids, do a bit of some self examination to build that foundation, present yourself here with confidence.....and of course, by all means!Use the orange search button :-)

Reply by John Tennant on 8/2/13 11:15pm
Msg #479132

Over 6 years ago, when I first started, I monitored this board for almost 6 months. One of my first postings was "Why is everyone on this forum so nasty". Believe it or not, it really has improved.

I was a dealership service manager/fixed operations manager for most of my life. I have a very thick skin from all of the "heat" that position gets so the nasty responses on the forum (and yes in the PM's) did not effect me.

I do not believe "sugar coating" will help anyone. Yes, some moderation in the response always helps. These "newbies" will succeed only if they can overcome the hardships. Reasonably blunt responses can lead to that success.

JMHO

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 8/2/13 11:49pm
Msg #479136

I don't know much . . . But, I think Mike and Les have a point:

The "radical" approach in my humble opinion is just to let the site owners have the Control. More radical: Give NotRot a Face-lift! Yes, a face lift. That nice, sweet, professionally dressed young lady on the landing page has got to go! Maybe a new tag line is in order, too.

For example, if I landed here and saw the words: Where EXPERIENCED SEASONED NOTARIES Unite In Upholding The Professional Standards Of The Notary Signing Industry instead of "Welcome to the Notary Talk General Discussion Forum" . . .

I'd probably just move on (thinking, wow, these guys are way out of my league)

~Quote: If you're the smartest one in your group, it's time to find a NEW group!

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 8/2/13 11:34pm
Msg #479134

WHew, Janel - I need a few breaths on that one!

<<"This forum is loaded with exceptionally experienced agents">>

Without a doubt. Point is: they got that way over TIME. Newer ones will get it (eventually) if they have the brass and are truly motivated to succeed. If the feedback from experienced agents is to really get newbies to "look in the mirror," then the purpose has been accomplished. If on the other hand, the feedback is meant to demoralize or discourage new notaries (notary publics are JUST that, Notaries) from joining the highly competitive saturated field . . .

See, it's all in the tone; just like veterans can see right through feeble attempts at siphoning info without putting in the work (what do you mean, 'you' want "current info?" How much more current do you need it to be?? It was just commented on a week or so ago!! Of course company reputations COULD go through dramatic transformations in under 30 days - I suppose . . .

Oh dear, I digress.

Words DO matter (you're right). Signing agents, loan document specialists, notary closing agents (agents of the actual "closer"), or whatever are NOT just notaries; we may use our notarial powers to FACILITATE or ASSIST in the processing/closing of a loan; I learned a long time ago that "processing" is just a fancy phraseology for figuring out what to do with the paperwork

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/3/13 1:49am
Msg #479139

Don't forget that not everyone reading and participating here is involved in loan work. Many are... but many are not. Many are mobile notaries performing general notary work only, and do NOT handle loan packages or are signing agents. Other are notaries who work out of their employer's office or perform notarizations for the general public (such as at copy and print shops or banks).

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/3/13 2:03am
Msg #479140

"...they got that way over TIME. Newer ones will get it (eventually) if they have the brass and are truly motivated to succeed."

And if they themselves do the work to learn and grow. There's a huge difference, for example, between having five years of experience and having one year of experience five times...

Reply by Christine/OK on 8/3/13 5:24am
Msg #479142

LIKE!! :D n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/3/13 1:45am
Msg #479138

"You need to study more, research more, take more classes. "

What's wrong with telling somebody the TRUTH? Sorry... but sometimes, people need to know the truth, and that their questions prove they are unprepared to be notarizing because they don't know what the crud they're doing. If all they get is a welcome and hey good luck... they're getting positive reinforcement for POOR behavior. That's ineffective, if not even more damaging. Somebody on the wrong course should be told and redirected, even if it might hurt their feelings a little bit. I have NO problem telling a notary that they need to stop, reevaluate and study the basics before they try notarizing anything. I can tell you from first-hand knowledge, there are several notaries in my area (and one in particular!) that should NOT be working and regularly posts the most ridiculous questions. That person doesn't appear to post here anymore because that person got (IMO, rightfully) called out for this. They post elsewhere now, many of the same questions. Well, working in the same area, I've been told NUMEROUS stories from local companies who have dealt with this individual and I've been called at least 4 times now to clean up this person's work. This person has NO BUSINESS in this field right now. I'm not going placate this person or give him/her platitudes. My advice? STOP taking work. Educate yourself more. I'm happy to help train... if I'm paid for my time... but I think the damage is done and I doubt even with training this person could fix their reputation. Sadly, the el cheapo companies still hire this person because he/she is willing to take $60 for a job I wouldn't do for less than $155.

I believe that the atmosphere here at NotRot is that of the real business world. It's reality. Running a small business is not like living on a commune. There are many resources available for people to learn how to run their businesses. The information is here, too... but none of us are being paid to be nice to these newbies. If they want advice, they should go back to whomever got paid to train them or figure it out for themselves. The information is here... a LOT of information. I figure, if a person can't figure out how to research, they have little business running their own business. I'm happy to give information when I have the time, but if I'm doing it on my time... don't get all huffy with me if it's not the puppies and rainbows answer you were looking for.

If people want to run their own small businesses, they need to have the intelligence to research their field and develop the right skills. They cannot expect everyone to hand them the answers or be "nice" to them 24/7. I personally don't care if a newbie gets upset. If so, they clearly can't handle the opposition they'll face in real business situations. You cannot be a small business owner and let your emotions get to you.

Personally, I read here for YEARS before I ever participated. I read everything and did the research first.

I want to think that GG's post is sarcastic or tongue in cheek... but I don't think it was.

http://youtu.be/Bo7zkd0kRS4

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/3/13 2:30am
Msg #479141

Very well said, both Janel and Marian!

Two excellent posts! Only one thing I'm not sure about... Goldgirl has put up quite a few tongue-in-cheek posts over the past several weeks or so. I couldn't tell for sure, but I'm hoping this was one of them.

BTW, one more comment I've been meaning to make that I'm just going to stick here 'cause I don't know where else to put it... Sometimes the very best advice that a person can get is to use the orange search button. And I truly believe that most of the time that advice is given in the spirit of trying to help someone, not to be mean. (If someone feels otherwise, it's their loss.) After all, not everyone who reads here is aware of it - especially newbies.

I don't know how long the archives of this forum go back, but lets say it's 10 years. There have been lots of people come and go over those years, with different perspectives, different questions, and many, many different answers. There may be something someone said years ago (as NVLSlady/VA just indicated in her thread above) that directly addresses your issue, but that no one currently posting on this board will be able to answer in the same way, if at all.

Reply by Christine/OK on 8/3/13 5:30am
Msg #479143

Yes! How about just a simple reply possibly . . .

"Welcome! Use the orange search button to locate information regarding your question."

Direct, honest, supportive, and contains the foundation of ALL that is noted above; i.e., this is not Kiddieland and we are not Nannies - be mature and do your own homework.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/4/13 5:18pm
Msg #479232

And how much more succinct can it be than in the Rules &

Guidelines: #5.
If you plan to ask a question, Search the message archive for your answer first. Look for the following button in the forum. It is very likely your question has already been answered. (picture of Search button)

Ask if you can't find after your search, but this is beyond that. Many times kindness is interpretated as weakness, ie, sarcasm, belittling, etc. Truth is not welcome for certain segment of the population, and some of that segment end up asking here.

Reply by Juiceman on 8/3/13 8:35am
Msg #479146

Marian,

I am relatively new in this field. Have taken on-line classes and read a lot on this board to learn and take away little "pearls" from time to time. I have taken away many and am constantly here to learn more. Now, I am going to speak for myself here as a newbie. You and many others smack of elitism and superiority in your posts. In my state all it takes to become a notary is $25. Nothing more, nothing less. I have a full-time job where I manage a 1.5 million dollar territory. I have a budget that I must adhere to and I am directly responsible for my quota every year. I have been doing this for 11 years. I know my business inside/out. I will also tell you that I am not the cheapest person/company to work with. Every year, I face more and more competition and I deal with "cheaper" alternatives that I compete against. I don't sit here and cry about it like you and many of the other "seasoned" vets seem to do. If what you do is so over the top good, than don't worry about the guy/gal that is taking the $60 signings that you charge $155 for. If your service is that much better than you will get work in spades. If that company only wants to pay $60 for a signing than as top notch as you are, maybe you need to be happy that you are not working for them. My turn to give you some advice. If you are getting "shopped around", maybe you need to look at selling yourself better or marketing yourself a bit differently. If you need help with this, let me know. Message boards are like TV, the Internet or Radio. If something upsets, offends you or you consider a waste of time then don't respond or change the channel. But to disrespect people that may have not known about your "orange search" button and to dismiss them as dumb is a reflection on how you more than likely treat people in life. I am a big believer in Karma and I am willing to bet that the people that degrade others on this board are having issues with their business.

There is a saying, "what comes around, goes around" Reflect on it.......

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/3/13 8:58am
Msg #479150

"But to disrespect people that may have not known about your "orange search" button and to dismiss them as dumb is a reflection on how you more than likely treat people in life"

it is strange that people can find the "new message" button to make a post to ask a basic question but are too blind to see the orange "search" button right next to the new message button.

If you have been doing this for 11 years then you are not a "newbie" Marian has been a member here for many years and could never be considered as an "elitist" She has always been one of the most helpful members on this forum. Of course Marian and others are being "shopped around", it's the nature of the business. Companies will go down the lists until they find a signing agent willing to take the lowball fee.

To be honest I find this thread to be distasteful, although I would like to think the original post was posted tongue in cheek. The tenor of this forum has declined to a certain extent over the years, mainly because of "newbies" being directed here for "training" This has never been a forum for training new signing agents, it is a forum for professional notaries to share their experiences, advice and opinions with other members of the profession. Many of us are willing to answer questions, and give advice - and often the best advice is to use the orange search button (that button right next to the new message button). I know if I want to know something if I research myself instead of asking for the answer then I will remember much better than if I were spoon fed the answer.

Reply by 101livescan on 8/3/13 9:26am
Msg #479153

ELITISTS?? Now I've heard it all. We are actually in the boiler room. All the "stuff" flows to the bottom of the pile. That is where we come in!

What's different about our roles these days, well, we're printing all the LO's disclosures he didn't both to get signed at the time the rate was locked, never bothered to send the client their appraisal, and collecting most recent pay stubs, tax returns, and anything else that is a prior to funding condition. Yep, we're the damage control department. We're being asked for faxbacks so that the lender gets to review the stuff before FEDEX arrives, immediately after the signing, or we don't get paid, or our fee is dinged.

Unfortunately, many companies are out there "cleaning up" on fees because they see the opportunity to snake away half the signing fees by dinging notaries for every missed step along the way, like, calling to say they have received edocs, contacted the borrower, confirmed they have completed the signing, confirmed they have dropped the documents, yada yada yada. In the old days, we worked directly for the LO/escrow/title, and it was a given we knew what we were doing and didn't need this micromanaging hand holding. I've even had SSs call to make sure I arrived at the exact hour I was scheduled to arrive. WHAT???? Craziness.

I don't think, Juiceman, you've spent much time in the trenches. Believe me, Elitists we are not!

Reply by Sandra G Holland on 8/3/13 1:14pm
Msg #479176

I don't believe in karma, but I agree with the rest of Juiceman 's comments. I have no way of knowing whether an individual is having problems in personal/business life, but character counts no matter what we do. It doesn't hurt to be nice.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/3/13 1:35pm
Msg #479178

Me? Elitist??? Wow....

Anyone who knows anything about me that I'm about the opposite of that. I am opinionated and vocal, but I'm hardly an elitist. I gladly give of my time to help people and have for many years. BUT... I won't do it for those that want all the answers given to them. As it has been pointed out, we can usually tell a person's intentions in their question.

I get a lot of calls and emails from people who are trying to research one very specific topic -- that I-9 form. I don't mind talking to people about it and helping them through. It's confusing for sure and there are multiple options for getting it done. But, people find me to ask because they have done the research and found my name, or they were referred by somebody who knows my name. I'm totally cool with this.

I have asked plenty of pretty silly things here myself... but I sure try to find the answer first.

When I answer questions, most of the time I will try to provide an authoritative reference for future use...such as links to a handbook (with page references), state legal sites, etc. I will often write very, very long answers, not to just answer their question but because it will hopefully be used by others in the future when they search for those key words. I leave references so that they will learn how to look up these answers, and know where to find them.

I'm fine helping people... but if they are capable of learning, then teach them to learn, not just hand over the answers. Consider the words of Anne Ritchie:

"He certainly doesn't practise his precepts, but I suppose the patron meant that if you give a man a fish he is hungry again in an hour; if you teach him to catch a fish you do him a good turn."


Think of it something like this. Let's say you got a severe survival situation. You've been stranded in the jungle for years, surviving on your own. They've got skills and are working hard just to keep yourself alive. Then, one day, there's a plane crash in the jungle... and you've got some people who take the initiative, help out and listen to what you tell them. You've got others who have no idea how to live in the jungle alone, but they watch and learn from the ones making it, especially you, the one that's been out there for years. Then you've got the ones who sit and cry and expect people to make it all better for them, even though they are perfectly capable of doing the work. Eventually, they realize that everyone has work to do and they start figuring it out. THEN... you've got the real primadonnas... the ones who refuse to chip a nail or take of their heels and insist a rescue boat is on the way. They ignore the fact that you've been out there for years and help may not be coming along any time soon. You've left the tools and supplies you can spare for them but don't have the time to build their shelter for them, build their fire, catch and cook their fish to 5-star restaurant standards. They whine at YOU and tell you how mean and awful you are for not making their lives easier for them.

The problem is that a lot of notaries come here looking for that gourmet fish dinner. The problem is.... we're not chefs.

Reply by 101livescan on 8/3/13 9:42am
Msg #479155

LIKE! n/m

Reply by 101livescan on 8/3/13 9:06am
Msg #479151

Just be nice, or else!

There is so much difference on how the written word and the spoken word is perceived. We all know that.

We have many people coming to this forum right out of notary class or loan signing seminar. Don't forget they've been told they can make six digit earnings! What a nightmare to find out you'll only make $50 to $95 including edocs and faxbacks and having the grovel for your money for 45 to 90 days. I haven't heard that people are being instructed on negotiation skills, nor have they been warned about the thieves and villainous companies in this business lying in the low brush waiting for new meat to devour. It is apparent they are clueless about the pimples of this business. No one mentioned these dilemmas, or how to collect your hard earned, measly fees.

Those of us who've been in this business for many years, VETERANS if you will, know better.

I believe as one of the more sage, experienced NSA's of this forum, everyone has a right to jump in. We all did. But I believe we need not to jump down their throats with a stick of dynamite. How about just being a little kinder, gentler in our responses to these newcomers. And if it is so intolerable to read, just skim past it and let it be for those who have the time to mentor and help these people grow.

We all know what a huge learning curve this business is, if you're going to be the preferred loan signing agent in a specific area. This industry is no cake walk. I always wanted to be the best that I can be! That was my goal. I didn't ask any one for their list of vendors, I sought out my own. I didn't ask to shadow any one, I knew what to do, and learned a lot along the way from LOs and escrow officers. It's a tap dance. Expect the unexpected.

I could write a book on the stories I hear about NSA's at the table, I could write a book about what not to do. This business is not for the frail, it is not a get rich quick biz. It takes focus, dedication, finesse, being appropriate, being steady, knowledgeable, unflappable and real.

Any one who has taken a class and told what a great opportunity this is to make a bunch of $$$ fast, well, I'm one to tell you, that very simply is not true. Get ready to roll up your shirt sleeves, do your homework, do not expect your competition to roll out their entire business plan for you and all their contacts, all their knowledge and the benefit of their years of experience. It really is every man, woman and child for themselves. Some people are natural at this, others struggle, struggle some more and finally give up.

This board attracts people of all levels of skill, resilience and know how. Many do it well, others do it so poorly, they should hang it up. I see it nearly every day I'm out there in the signing trenches.

As leaders, ye ole VETERANS, we need to be kinder, nicer in our responses. It does absolutely no service at all to yell and criticize. We need to be more welcoming. This isn't our board, really, it's Harry's. While we are subscribers, we are still guests in someone else's home. A few have had to put out with the garbage over the years.

I would like to remind everyone that the biggest vendors we all work for read this board DAILY. I know that first hand. Be wary of your show, how you address people, what you say is resonating to many.

Be a class act! We are in a class all of our own, there are not many groups like this one. If you are timid and thin skinned, newcomers, be careful about how and what you post. Don't take things too personally, we are all as different as carrots and peas but in the same pot.

My own reality is that I am a sole practitioner, I don't have a team, I'm IT, Marketing, CEO, Janitor, HR, Chauffeur, Business Manager, Finance, HR, and Public Relations. It gets a little overwhelming sometimes. I try to keep things in perspective and above all, just BE NICE so I will move forward more easily than drop out because people might view me as mean. So far it's working out very NICELY.

If you are perceived as being mean spirited, it will be noticed. It's much easier to just BE NICE.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Reply by Juiceman on 8/3/13 9:23am
Msg #479152

Re: Just be nice, or else!

Very well put 101!! As I said in my post. I come here to learn. If I ask a dumb question, so be it. I have 39 years of experience in dumb. But, I am always trying to learn, to improve. The tone from a lot of the veterans is "spiteful and oftentimes mean spirited". I am a big boy, thick skinned. I hear no, more than yes. I have been in sales for over a decade. I know what hard work is all about. I did not become a notary signing agent, to "get rich". I came to supplement my income. If I find it to be not worth my time, I will stop. So far, that has not been the case. It could change. I have negotiated fees on almost all of my calls. It is what I do. I take this endeavor very seriously, I rarely post. But, I read a ton. Just try and be respectful of others. You never know when your words, actions can come back to haunt you.

Reply by 101livescan on 8/3/13 9:28am
Msg #479154

LIKE THIS MORE! n/m

Reply by Christine/OK on 8/3/13 10:32am
Msg #479161

Juiceman-will U Click Add Link To My Profile when posting?nm n/m

Reply by JanelWI on 8/3/13 1:01pm
Msg #479174

Juiceman.....one veteran's perspective.....

Therein lies the problem with an online medium. It does not replace actual interpersonal skills and it is not a free license to degrade or demean others. However, people have actually become more disconnected with each other because of it, and in some cases less tolerant. There is little balance. For example, I walked into a clinic one day for an appointment, and it was silent. No one was speaking to each other. Not even mother or father to child. One kid had a pacifier stuck his his mouth swaying back and forth watching the Disney channel on TV in an obvious trance, and the rest either had ear buds, or were clicking away on their little machines. I felt like yelling "fire" to see if anyone would even notice.

Have we become so conditioned to be distracted, and to snidely ridicule and judge others from the comfort of our "little machines" that we forgot how to actually engage one another, or discern the difference between respectful constructive dialogue and vilifying someone at the "stake of ignorance?" I am starting to think technology has taken us back instead of forward. We don't seem to be able to say anything anymore without people becoming so ridiculously reactionary over nothing more than straight forward honesty.

Oh....Karma is a Fickle Beast.....I call it Cause and Effect.

I have always spoken the truth on this forum from my perspective and so far “karma” does not seem to have a problem with truth even if it ruffles a few feathers. It is my intent to ruffles feathers at times. But, it certainly does not mean that it is my intent to declare newcomer stupidity to the virtual abyss. It also does not mean Karma is coming for me, and it does not mean that my business is failing either. It is about respect and discernment. It means that we all have something to learn and it is a life long endeavor. We can't always sugar coat, and nor should we. I have always found that a balance of professional respect and straight forward communication, has in most cases, been very effective over the years on this forum, in my business, and in my every day life. It is the human condition to express ones self! but we must balance it with action, or words mean absolutely nothing.

One of the very problems with this industry is the lack of standards. No veteran agent like myself is whining about newcomers stealing their business. However, the dialogue and drum beating for standards are important because it would be nice to leave this industry better than when we came into it. I would like to see this industry endure, transform and evolve. That is why I "pontificate" the way that I do because new perspectives and new ideas are what bring us forward. But, I am more of a proponent of making sure we do it responsibly so that as this industry moves forward on solid ground. Just because we can do a thing does not mean that people have the discipline nor the respect, or proper foresight to handle it. So, when we ruffle some feathers about having a plan, there is a reason.

How can anyone have integrity for themselves, their family, or their business if they are willing to do the bare minimum for maximum reward? That never works and yes, you get out what you put in...eventually. But never in the way we would imagine for ourselves or perhaps sneeringly wish on others. So, even “karma” is a fickle beast. Why are so many people hurting? Why do we have such dysfunction in the world? Do not confuse “karma” with “cause and effect”. Life or business, is what we make of it.


Elitist vs. Doing your Homework....

So much of what we see these days is about "what's in it for me" rather than true service to one another for positive success, and the success of future generations. I don't respect those in any forum that seek to be spoon fed answers just so they can get by. Although, "easy" breeds arrogance, and they "never" think cause and effect can happen to them. I know better, and I have have earned better. So, I speak of it often, and most importantly, walk the walk. That does not make me “elitist”. I am no different than the many who take a stand for their life, and their business, and stick to it. I cherish where I am at, so I try to respectfully pay it forward, no doubt from my perspective, but with confidence. This is not “elitism”.

Elitists do not possess empathy or compassion. They are in the business to serve themselves even over their own blood. They will let money and “things” override any value towards human existence what so ever. I don't see that here just because a few have had their feathers ruffled.

At the end of the day, it is like the stone in the pond. It takes time for the ripples to reach the shore, but when it finally does, we see the fruit of our labor either positive or negative. Look around, there are many very wealthy, seemingly successful, ego maniacal, covetous individuals in the world that siphon money off the backs of others every day. They continue to succeed with little or no consequences and pat themselves on the back for their ingenuity, and are constantly convincing themselves they are divinely anointed to do so. That is elitism my friend, and it cares nothing for you, and would not waste even one key stroke of time on you, me, or anyone but themselves.

I talk about doing ones homework because it is about integrity and appreciation for where you are, what you have learned and the ripples you create in an industry either positive or negative. Karma/cause and effect share those two outcomes. However, it has always been our right to choose. No “one” person suffers from the actions of a select few. It is in most cases that many will suffer, even though they have no skin in the game at all. It is the same when people are successful, because it is also shared and can create more opportunities and advancement for people you may never meet in a lifetime.

That is why we sometimes ruffle feathers, because we are veterans, we have the benefit of foresight, and it is about cause and effect.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/3/13 1:06pm
Msg #479175

Great post Janel! n/m

Reply by John Tennant on 8/3/13 1:53pm
Msg #479179

Janel definately has it right. Like very much. n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/3/13 3:24pm
Msg #479184

Awesome post! S/b recommended reading for all! Tks, Janel! n/m

Reply by Juiceman on 8/4/13 10:01am
Msg #479206

Re: Juiceman.....one veteran's perspective.....

Janel,

My mom also told me, "if you don't have anything nice to say....." I think you know the rest. I don't mind some criticism or advice. Just ask my wife, we have been together for 10 years. Some on this board consider themselves the "illuminati", like they have uncovered the Holy Grail. I have another career, one which I take very seriously. However, if I start belittling people and calling other's names, maybe it is time for me to find a new career because that is not who I am or aspire to be. Yes, this is a serious business but all I ask for is a little civility. You call for standards, that is fine. You chose this endeavor, as did everyone on this board. Some are more dependent it on than others and that is more than ok. I am not naive to think that MEAN people are not successful, but I am willing to bet that other facets of their lives are not as seemingly great, i.e. relationships, friendships, etc. There are consequences for everything we do. Just because I have not done this as long as you or others does not make me an idiot. Just because you have done this longer than others does not afford you the right to make people feel small. If you disagree, that is fine. I will tell you that in my industry that if I treated my competition the way some of you do, you would not succeed. There is something called "professionalism". It is important to me. If someone comes on here for the first time to "learn" about what it takes to become a good notary it is only professional that either you choose to disregard or help if that is what you want to do. I appreciated a lot of what you wrote.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/4/13 10:49am
Msg #479209

Re: Juiceman.....one veteran's perspective.....

"If someone comes on here for the first time to "learn" about what it takes to become a good notary it is only professional that either you choose to disregard or help if that is what you want to do."

And the main deal with this is.....the answers are all here...by use of the orange search button. Why should the same information be said/typed/entered over and over and over again, ad infinitum, when a simple "asked and answered, use search keywords <xxx>>" will give them the answers they want.

My mom always told me "I don't chew my cabbage twice". Some of us have chewed it more than we care to think about....because of the entitlement factor some come in with. I, for one, am tired of saying it over and over and, for the most part now, no longer respond to these same old newbie questions any longer.

Reply by Sandra G Holland on 8/3/13 12:57pm
Msg #479173

LIKE!! They/we will still have to wade through the old posts with obnoxious responses. I thought I was going to read all the posts when I started, but now I filter what I read.