Posted by ladyknc on 8/11/13 4:34pm
Msg #480099

Reverse mtg application-- dementia issues

So booked a signing for RM app for in the morning. Called the borrower and her daughter answered the phone. Apparently the homeowner has short term memory aka demenia and the daughter and the LOAN OFFICE were expecting me to inform the lady of what we were doing and how RM works. considering that she would not remember, per her daughter, within just a few minutes everything I told her and the lady would be asking me same questions over and over and over and over-- I at this time do not feel this woman is of course cognizance enough to sign; obviously. She does, however, have a non-expired NC photo ID--that was impressive
The daughter says she, the daughter, has a POA; and she could sign for her mom. Can't do that unless it is approved by the loan company and in NC has to be registered at courthouse.
Wonder if the other siblings know about this?

Reply by 101livescan on 8/11/13 4:46pm
Msg #480102

WOW! This happened to me earlier this year, it was the last RM for me for a while.

The daughter became very nasty, wrote a letter to the SOS complaining about me and threatened to sue me and the escrow company. Of course, she couldn't because she was not the "injured" party since it was "mom" who applied for the RM. Mom didn't know what day it was!

Oh yes, daughter had been a notary once upon a time, and she had a POA for mom, but it had not been approved by the lender in underwriting/legal, so that was not doable on the day I was there for signing the loan documents. I'm pretty sure there was something fishy going on here.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/11/13 7:11pm
Msg #480119

Interesting situation. I wouldn't have continued, even if

it was the app. I wonder how she'll complete the required counseling. Also, to date I haven't
seen a RM done through POA. I'd be curious if any lender would approve that, since it's a lawsuit waiting to happen, IMO.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/11/13 7:20pm
Msg #480122

I wouldn't have either...especially after being told

"the daughter and the LOAN OFFICE were expecting me to inform the lady of what we were doing and how RM works"

No, that's not my job. That's the loan officer's job. And how dare the LO tell the daughter that the notary would do all that???

And as to whether or not these can be done through POA, it's very possible depending on the POA - many have provisions allowing the agent to "mortgage, lease, sell, invest and reinvest" real property and the monies. If lender is willing to accept the app signed by the AIF then why not?

Reply by ladyknc on 8/11/13 7:50pm
Msg #480131

Re: I wouldn't have either...especially after being told

I do know that some lenders will take a POA for a RM if it covers it and is approved by the legal dept

The counseling sheet said that the counseling could easily be done over the phone. NOT I know that in NC it has to be face to face appt except in certain cases as in bedridden.

I really hate it when the LO gives wrong info either because they do not know better but in some cases they did know and just hoped that when the signing agent gets there that they will go ahead and sign.

Ok shutting my mouth now before I get myself into trouble!!!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/11/13 8:08pm
Msg #480135

Our counseling was done over the phone...

IMO this particular case is a prime example of why it should NOT be over the phone. Also a prime example why notaries should not be involved in this application process. These are medical judgment calls that we should not have to make.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/11/13 8:11pm
Msg #480136

Another interesting question. Yes, a good amt. of the

counseling is done by phone. How do they know who they're talking to??? ;-) LOL

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/11/13 8:13pm
Msg #480137

No idea..and our counselor asked us why we wanted

this loan and what we were going to do with the money...since it's none of their business I just kept saying "personal reasons"...LOL

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 8/11/13 8:22pm
Msg #480139

Re: No idea..and our counselor asked us why we wanted

I think the reason they ask that question has to do with whether or n pot you may have been coerced into buying an annuity. There's a question like that in the packet. A lot of seniors have been coerced into doing that.

Reply by Art_PA on 8/12/13 9:38am
Msg #480161

RUN away from this. There is a good chance you will end up as a witness when the other children try to set the transaction aside after mom dies or has to move to assisted living & they go to sell the house.

You are clearly liable if you notarize a transaction by a person who is incompetent.

The bottom line is that your fee does not begin to compensate you for what you may be getting yourself into.

Reply by Barney on 8/12/13 9:53am
Msg #480162

How old is the POA? I would not do it. Same thing happened in our family. The notary notarized POA without ID, she was full blown dementia. On a 5 min. loop. The daughter did this under the radar. One year later husband passes and daughter using the POA for everything took 170,000. out of their account and put in her personal account. Attorney fees now 75,000.00 took a year to get guardianship of mother by another one of her children.

Reply by rolomia on 8/12/13 8:35pm
Msg #480238

That's only one of many reasons why I no longer accept signing orders for RM's, especially where POA's are involved. Had I been in your situation, I'd have told the daughter to go ahead and sue me, so that I'd have a very public forum to call said daughter's intent with use of POA into question.

My attorney would call every single one of said daughter's siblings, mother, etc. into question under oath. Then, I would turn around and sue daughter for making legal threats against me. If she filed a complaint against me with the SOS and nothing came of it, I'd sue her for attempting to use a state office for undue harassment, too.

I give as good as I get and then some. As the saying goes, "bring it on!" JMHO

Reply by Darlin_AL on 8/13/13 12:23pm
Msg #480312

one reason i stopped any Rev Mtg involvment n/m