Posted by walthtz on 8/20/13 9:10am
Msg #481132

Scaning

Hi.
Does anyone scan the package or at least the Notarized pages before sending the package back?
Reason I am asking:
A company sent the package back to me in e-mail saying that I made an error. Upon looking at what they claimed the error to be, I was unable to do what they wanted because of the state laws.
When I looked at what they sent, I noticed that they made changes to the documents I notarized.
I did not think that changes could be made to a document after the document is notarized.
In this case, the embosser stamp impression was colored over & other info was added.
My feeling is that if this ever made it to a court, unless I had a copy of what I did, how would I be able to say those changes were not added by me.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/20/13 9:22am
Msg #481134

Coloring over the embossed impression is acceptable - makes it easier for recording. But adding other info to your certificate is unacceptable.

Reply by walthtz on 8/20/13 9:26am
Msg #481136

Actually, I just spoke to the NNA about this. Their answer is that coloring over the embosser is tampering with the document & someone can be held liable. & I do not want that someone to me. NO-ONE is supposed to able to tamper with the document after the Notarization.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/20/13 9:29am
Msg #481138

I wouldn't take their advice on anything! n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/20/13 9:58am
Msg #481143

I wouldn't take the NNA's word on that.
Embossed seals are often coloured over to make them reproducible.
You can even buy a Seal Impression Inker/Highlighter in the supply store here so you can do it yourself.
I've known some recorders offices that will just take a pencil and just "shade" over the embossed seal.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/20/13 9:25am
Msg #481135

That is an odd situation. Did you question them about the

changes made to your notarial certificate? As far as I know, they can't make changes like that. I don't know, of course, what might happen at the recorder's office.
I would let them know your concerns about the "alteration". You did say "the embosser stamp impression was colored over". I don't use an embosser, since VA law requires the stamp to be reproducible. I only use the ink stamp.
I know of some who scan & save docs until they are paid. IMO that is a breach of security, and I never save docs on my computer. Others will respond differently to that issue, I'm sure.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/20/13 9:30am
Msg #481139

What does your NJ Notary Law say about the stamp being

reproducible?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/20/13 10:03am
Msg #481145

Re: What does your NJ Notary Law say about the stamp being

Marilyn, according to NJ notary handbook a notary does not even need to have a stamp.

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/revenue/dcr/geninfo/notarymanual.shtml

" The ink stamp should include the date on which the Notary's commission expires. The stamp should be placed next to, but not over, the Notary's signature. (If the Notary does not have an ink stamp, his/her name and commission expiration date must be printed or typed on the certificate as indicated"

Reply by MW/VA on 8/20/13 10:15am
Msg #481147

No, but their reference is to an ink stamp, not an embosser.

Waiting for Walt's reply if they added more than that info., or if he includes it with his embosser seal.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 8/20/13 9:59am
Msg #481144

walthtz~

You don't say what was added. Is it maybe your notary info -- i.e. name, number, expiration date, State, etc.? The reason I ask is because maybe that info is not easily discerned by just coloring the seal. That's what you come across by using an embosser. Have you ever considered inking it in yourself? JMHO

BTW, to answer your question, the only time I scan a completed package is when fax/scan-backs are required.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/20/13 10:29am
Msg #481151

Re: walthtz~ No I don't...if there is a problem

I asked them to send me the original so I can see what it was. Otherwise, if it's obvious they can email me a copy.

The last time I had this happened I was told I missed a signature. They emailed me the Doc and it had a hand drawn line with an X and no signature. I emailed them back the "original" copy of the Doc they sent me, with the line missing. Nuff said.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 8/20/13 11:02am
Msg #481165

Hand drawn line (photoshop rules!) I'm cracking up n/m

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 8/20/13 11:14am
Msg #481169

Re: Hand drawn line (photoshop rules!) I'm cracking up

Now, if someone could just pm with how to remove background from my ID photo!

p.s. I designed in Corel and even tried the popular photo edit software but couldn't make it work

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/20/13 12:40pm
Msg #481182

Re: Hand drawn line (photoshop rules!) I'm cracking up

select background and then fade it out, put one of my pictures in instead.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 8/20/13 12:54pm
Msg #481184

Maybe I'll have you do a portrait instead n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 8/20/13 1:35pm
Msg #481203

Lots of speculation, and we never heard back from Walt

about what the "alteration" was. Regardless, IMO they should have kicked it back to him to make the changes.

Reply by walthtz on 8/20/13 6:06pm
Msg #481295

Re: Lots of speculation, and we never heard back from Walt

After I spoke with the company & explained, they did tell me that I was correct.
But how does someone stop this from happening?
How are we supposed to protect ourselves in case something this happens?
If the BR were go to court over an error in the documents, how can the Notary prove that a so called error did not happen when the document was Notarized.?
If a court were to happen, it would probably be years & then does the Notary remember what was done at the table?

Reply by jnew on 8/20/13 6:20pm
Msg #481297

Re: Lots of speculation, and we never heard back from Walt

Coloring shading of embossed seal has been going on for decades. NNA is wrong on this.
I agree that your notary certificate is your domain. However, I have seen title and lender make changes after receiving package and before recording. e.g. adding tenancy or marital status to printed names of borrower. Since most notaries never see the recorded document, they usually don't know that the certificate has been modified, but it happens frequently. The Magic Wand scanner is very easy to use if you have to get a copy of a document from the borrower and they forgot to make it. You can easily scan your certificates with the MW. It might be a good idea to do so on notarizations made for a fussy customer or one that you don't entirely trust. I wouldn't think it would be necessary on all loans.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/20/13 6:36pm
Msg #481300

Re: Lots of speculation, and we never heard back from Walt

I have even seen witnesses added where there were none. PAW and I were looking into this a few years ago, but nothing came of it. I even went to the clerk of the courts office recording section and let them know what was happening and even showed them a copy of one of the recorded documents that had witnesses added. They said without a police report they couldn't do anything and suggested I contact the police dept, who of course said that as the "fraud" didn't happen locally they couldn't do anything about it.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/20/13 7:23pm
Msg #481309

I understand your concern, Walt, but I wouldn't worry so

much about being called into court. From what I understand, the few notaries that were called into court were asked to produce their Journal. That's the only real record you have of notarizations.
You still haven't elaborated on what changes they made.