Posted by OLRAM on 8/10/13 3:51pm
Msg #479993

Thoughts on using an electronic official notary journal

What are your thoughts on using an electronic official notary journal on an ipad as oppose to the regular paperback notary journal in california. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/10/13 4:35pm
Msg #479997

How would you get thumbprints required for POAs and deeds/any doc affecting real property?

Reply by VT_Syrup on 8/11/13 7:49am
Msg #480054

I commented on a similar question in Msg #469893

Reply by 101livescan on 8/11/13 8:47am
Msg #480058

Sequential Journal

No one has ever explained to me how you keep a sequential journal if you have both manual and electronic journal with thumbprints (DNA).

Not sure we'll ever get there either.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/11/13 10:28am
Msg #480067

Not to mention CA notary law is clear

"A notary public is required to keep one active sequential journal at a time of all acts performed as a notary public"

*ONE* active sequential journal.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 8/11/13 11:19am
Msg #480072

Re: Not to mention CA notary law is clear

I don't see why the one sequential journal requirement is a huge obstacle. If someone finds an electronic journal that meets state law and they like it, they would probably want to use it for everything. They just need to make sure the journal will work when they need it; if it depends on access to the net, they'd have to stop notarizing if they have no WiFi or cellular data access. (Of course, there are other problems with electronic journals that are discussed elsewhere.)

Some people make a mental link between electronic journals and electronic notarization. But there is no particular reason an electronic notarization couldn't be recorded in a paper journal, unless the individual state's law says otherwise.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/11/13 11:50am
Msg #480075

Re: Not to mention CA notary law is clear

Cheryl said "No one has ever explained to me how you keep a sequential journal if you have both manual and electronic journal with thumbprints (DNA"

That's what I was responding to.

Reply by John Tennant on 8/11/13 1:52pm
Msg #480089

Re: Not to mention CA notary law is clear

What happens if the WiFi or cellular data access signal goes out in the middle of a signing and there is a 2 hour wait before it comes back up? You really think you are going to get paid for that time. Being cautious, I will always stick with the paper journal. FWIW.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/11/13 8:30pm
Msg #480141

Re: Not to mention CA notary law is clear

<<<But there is no particular reason an electronic notarization.....>>>>

A grant deed is electronically notarized. Problem: County recorders (or any receiving agency for that matter) must have the set-up/software in order to receive an electronically notarized deed/doc.....not sure about other states but CA is broke. And even if CA wasn't broke, those agencies are most likely to cheap to justify the expense.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/11/13 10:12pm
Msg #480147

Re: Not to mention CA notary law is clear

An electronic journal has nothing to do with the recording of a document - but an electronic notarization definitely would. I don't see the latter happening here for a very long time for the reasons you stated, plus the fact that there would likely have to be more standardization than what exists now - but I'm talking over my head on that piece. BTW, electronic recording has been going on in Orange County for years and is becoming more and more common around the state and other parts of the country. (Still not the same, though, as an electronic NOTARIZATION.) I presume they're using scanned paper docs for electronic recording. I remember reading that the transformation will be a 3-stage process, so there's more info to be found on this subject somewhere out there.

But back to journals, it's potentially feasible to have an electronic journal and a paper notarization. However, as others alluded to above, in CA at least, it's all or nothing. If you go to an electronic journal, I believe you would need to convert completely and use it all the time or find yourself in a very, very cumbersome situation. For example, if you "end" an electronic journal record (equivalent to completing a paper journal), then switch to a paper journal, then switch back to an electronic one, you could never use that paper journal again or it would be out of sequence. And I imagine you'd have to close out each electronic journal every time (however it is that would be done), if you decided to switch back and forth. Sounds like a major headache to me.

I believe, though, that someday, we'll probably have all our journals on something like an iPad or tablet, with an attachment (or app) that records thumbprints right from the screen. XYZ came out with the Enjoa years ago that was supposed to offer something like that (to be used with a laptop), but it never caught on. The biggest obstacle I foresee is that we'd need to have some kind of back-up storage which would raise issues of confidentiality and again, possibly the sequence issue.

Reply by rolomia on 8/12/13 11:41pm
Msg #480266

How about a hybrid paper/electronic journal?

I'd prefer a dual paper/electronic journal, if such a hybrid product could be invented/developed. Since paper journals must be bound, I'm guessing that the paper would conduct the pen strokes/thumb pressure similar to but better than carbon sheets.

Paper journals can be lost in a fire and electronic journals are subject to corruption/damage from EMP's/solar flares, hacking/worms/viruses/bugs, etc. But, combine the two methos, somehow, to increase/improve the security of keeping a journal record without increasing our workload.

I'm in, if the costs can be kept down. Again, no need to jump down my throat if you don't like my idea. It is, after all, just a suggestion. JMHO

Reply by VT_Syrup on 8/13/13 7:52am
Msg #480287

Re: How about a hybrid paper/electronic journal?

I ordered the source code for the Topaz GemTrust electronic journal, to see if I can figure out how it works. While I was at their site, I noticed many of their signature pads are designed to allow placing paper over the signature pad, and capturing the electronic signature at the same time as the paper signature.

If fingerprints were required/desired/allowed, that would have to be done separately. Topaz does sell electronic devices to capture fingerprints.

Of course, this would get sticky in a state that requires a single sequential journal. I guess you would have to designate one as your official journal and the other as a memory aid. If the official journal got lost, you could use the other as a memory aid. If you lived in a state that allows you to issue certified copies of your journal pages but no other certified copies, you wouldn't be able to issue certified copies of your memory aid.

Reply by rolomia on 8/14/13 4:38am
Msg #480423

A dual-format journal might be allowed, someday.

Once state law is updated to acknowledge the need for a more robust system of record-keeping in the wake of natural/man-made disasters, a hybrid/paper journal may be allowed, with the electronic version kept as an SOS-accessible archive, OR vise versa. Then, again, they might require such a dual record just to improve audit accuracy during an SOS review following a complaint or during a court-ordered review, while a court case is in motion. JMHO