Posted by ME/NJ on 8/9/13 11:58am
Msg #479798

Turned back one of my deals today because of borrower

Was set for this morning, confirmed the appointment on Wednesday he asked if I had the paperwork so he can review it and ask LO questions. The BO lives in a very religious town next to me and sometimes the people are a pain when signings happen. He called twice yesterday and asked again, I said he needs to contact who he is working with. It's 5pm and he leaves a message and I still did not have the paper work after that I turned it back and it was one of my better clients.

I just could not take him anymore, hope it went well for the back up.

Reply by Larry/IL on 8/9/13 12:03pm
Msg #479799

Sounds like you did the right thing...........

If you could control the borrower on the phone, doubt if you would have had the ability to control your appointment.

Reply by Larry/IL on 8/9/13 12:04pm
Msg #479801

Re: Sounds like you did the right thing...........

Make that couldn't control the borrower on the phone.

Reply by Sandra G Holland on 8/9/13 12:28pm
Msg #479809

What did religion and/or where he lives have to do with it?

Reply by Ali/IL on 8/9/13 12:31pm
Msg #479810

Did you think they would be harder to deal with because of their religious beliefs?
Just wanting to know.
I have had ones where they want to see docs beforehand.Then there are those that don't know the terms they are asking me about them. I have to direct them to their lender sometimes they just say just go ahead.

Reply by ME/NJ on 8/9/13 12:41pm
Msg #479812

If you're from NJ or NY you know about the town of Lakewood and signings go one way or another, they will just sign anything or pick at each line item forever.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/9/13 12:50pm
Msg #479813

Oh, boy. n/m

Reply by Sandra G Holland on 8/9/13 12:51pm
Msg #479814

Is that because of religion or misunderstanding(s) on the part of a notary who doesn't understand or doesn't agree with the culture? Just asking. I don't have much information from these posts.

Reply by ME/NJ on 8/9/13 12:55pm
Msg #479817

I turned it back because the borrower was hounding and I knew what I would be in for at the signing and did not want to deal with it at 9am in the morning.

Take it for that. Do research on Lakewood NJ and see what the major population is.

Reply by CJ on 8/9/13 1:21pm
Msg #479822

I know we are not prejudiced, but many times "they" are.

I don't know anything about Lakewood, but I am from Southern California. We have all kinds of colors, faiths, cultures and "lifestyles".

I am white. Many times I go in, and I see people freeze up because I am not the same color as they are.

Sometime people's first language is not English, and they have concerns about their loan, so they talk to the loan officer in their language. I don't understand them, but I really pick up that since their LO is like them, they trust the LO, when I SEE that they are being lied to because what they say the LO says is NOT what the Note says. I am not the enemy, their "pal" on the phone is.

Sometime I see religious stuff all over the house, and they are looking at me like I am the devil, and I need to reassure them that just because they don't know me, I am not evil. I am a religious person, so I tell a few Bible jokes, and they relax and lighten up. (Did you know that the disciples drove a Honda? Yes, they were all in one ACCORD.)

Reply by CJ on 8/9/13 1:39pm
Msg #479828

Once I was hired by an ethnic person. . .

I was a receptionist for an attorney that had a specific ethnic background. I didn't care, but everyone who called in cared. If the attorney was not in and I asked to take a message, the FIRST thing they would ask was if I was that ethnicity. I said I was not, but I take direction from the attorney and I do as his says. They were still wary of leaving messages with me.

Reply by Darlin_AL on 8/9/13 3:39pm
Msg #479848

Re: Once I was hired by an ethnic person. . .

ha ha, I was a white girl working in the office at a black cemetery outside of DC. The owner & mgmt. were white & explained to the customers that, when the prior cemetery was run by their own, wasn't it awful? (It was a travesty & the new cemetery picked-up the problems to straighten-out on behalf of those mis-handled parties.) Yes, the first question would be, "if you're white why are you working in a black cemetery?" I would chuckle that I needed to work for a living and that the customers are black makes no difference to me. This was JUST after the civil rights problems, in 1969. During the phone call I was able to assure and allay suspicions of the callers using common sense and keeping a courteous demeanor. No one was trying to offend me, they were just worried they were going to get bad treatment.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/9/13 8:20pm
Msg #479896

Re: Once I was hired by an ethnic person. . .

<<< Yes, the first question would be, "if you're white why are you working in a black cemetery?">>>

Because money is GREEN!!

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 8/10/13 8:51am
Msg #479935

Are you anti-semetic?

I am Jewish. I am not uinderstanding your remarks. Yes, Lakewood is an enclave of orthodox Jews. Are you afraid of their beards?

Reply by linda/ca on 8/9/13 5:24pm
Msg #479864

I took the time to look up the demographics

as you suggested ME/NJ and it was not what I expected; however, it made me chuckle. Some time you gotta do what you gotta do. It's definitely your call as everyone have different experiences!

Reply by MW/VA on 8/9/13 1:30pm
Msg #479825

Too bad he just didn't get it that you didn't have any

paperwork & couldn't answer his questions. You clearly told him he needed to call the LO with his questions. Lots of sensitivity, too, because you brought up "religious" in your post, and I understood the implications for people who tend to more difficult. Of course, other posters have reacted to that part of your post in particular. You didn't call out any particular religion or make any derogatory remarks.

Reply by CJ on 8/9/13 1:41pm
Msg #479829

I know when I am signing in different neighborhoods . . .

. . . I will tend to encounter a certain kind of mindset.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/9/13 1:58pm
Msg #479833

I've had this situation before...I just tell them to call

their LO and see if the LO can light a fire under title and there's nothing I can do to rush the docs along but maybe the LO can and I'd appreciate Mr. Borrower's help.

I wouldn't have turned it back - especially if this is a good client of mine - I'd have seen it through and made nice nice when I got there...I end up with a lot of friends and many happy borrowers that way - and an account receivable.

JMO

Reply by Luckydog on 8/9/13 4:53pm
Msg #479857

Re: I've had this situation before...I just tell them to call

I tell people I cannot legally send or email anything directly to them to review, it is up to their LO and title to do that and take responsibility that it gets to the "right eyes". I just bring the package at the closing. If they do not get it before hand, they may call to cancel the day before or let their LO know they are canceling and the reason why. That has happened a few times to me.
As far as the NY and NJ closings in general, they are used to attorneys on both sides being present and a lot of duplicate papers. When I do those residents visiting in FL, they are typically very suspicious and very leary of the closing, difficult, because no one is there besides us. I understand that going in, and know how to handle them, but it is a different type of closing for sure.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/9/13 8:33pm
Msg #479897

Problem: You did not establish your role

<<< He called twice yesterday and asked again, I said he needs to contact who he is working with. >>>

Sounded to him like you were passing the buck, which is why he continued calling and asking YOU.

"Mr. Borrower, you will need to contact who you're working with - your loan officer because I am a Notary Public - and independent contractor and will only witness your signature on the documents. I do not work for the lender or title company. I do not have your documents *pre-appointment* for your review....your lender does. Contact your loan officer and he'll see to it that you get a copy to review before our signing appt."

Repeat: "I do not have your documents pre-appointment for your review, your lender does". Therefore, contact your LO for assistance and getting a copy to you before our signing appt.

To clarify *pre-appointment*: You may have the docs pre-appointment only for YOUR preparation days before meeting with the borrower but not pre-appointment to give to the client for their review.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 8/9/13 8:46pm
Msg #479901

Re: Problem: You did not establish your role

Exactly. But it really requires a certain level of emotional intelligence that is rare.
Case in point:

<<"The owner & mgmt. were white & explained to the customers that, when the prior cemetery was run by their own, wasn't it awful? (It was a travesty & the new cemetery picked-up the problems to straighten-out on behalf of those mis-handled parties.)">>

Seriously?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/10/13 2:00pm
Msg #479983

Wow... this post bothers me on a number of levels.

My first impression when I read the OP was surprise, because I didn't see anything in your post that I thought justified turning back a signing to a good client (and I had no idea about the demographics of that town). You only provided two facts as justification: 1) a borrower called you a few times to try to get his paperwork to review (a reasonable request, even if not directed to the right person), and 2) he was from a "very religious town" where "sometimes the people are a pain". Seriously??!!

It sounds to me like you made a judgment about this person based on where he lives. In my area, I deal with people from many different parts of the world, with many different beliefs, customs, ethnicities, language, color (you name it) that aren't the norm of people in my area. Here's what I've found: there are as many different types of personalities within some of "those" groups as with any other. Some are extremely pleasant, some are obnoxious, most fall somewhere in-between. But all are dealing with the same headaches as any other borrower and just want to get their transaction completed!

Based on the details you chose to provide, I think your decision to turn this signing back - especially for a good client - was unprofessional and uncalled for. I've dealt with some really obnoxious, annoying, rude people who don't fall into the category you've associated with this "religious town", and I just deal with it. For all you know, this borrower might have just been having a bad time with his LO and the entire loan process. How many times have we seen *that* happen? I've been there too many times to count. Maybe the LO wasn't returning his calls.

A borrower may be a localized pain on the phone, but usually when I get there and I'm sitting across their dining room table and we have a chance to connect, I explain my role and they are pleasant enough - sometimes extremely appreciative. (I don't prejudge anyone.) Sometimes they're still rude, etc., but people will be people. As a professional, I consider it part of my job to be able to handle all kinds of personalities, as long as they're not abusive or potentially dangerous. And I can't imagine being able to determine that over the phone, except in an extreme case. Besides, that's not what you said were your reasons. (You didn't blame it on not getting the paperwork, just that you "could not take him anymore".)

For all you know, this might have ended up being a smooth signing with very nice people (as long as you were respectful and not rude to them - as I hope you would be with any borrower). But you'll never know that because you decided to judge someone based on where he lives, his probable religion (which you don't even know for sure, as if it makes a difference), and your assumptions about "those people".

Shame on you! The only thing that surprises me more is that there wasn't more disagreement with your decision...

Reply by Susan Fischer on 8/10/13 8:39pm
Msg #480019

Many thanks for this post, Janet, from a guilty party to the n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 8/10/13 9:06pm
Msg #480023

silence against judgmental attitudes in our workplace, which

is in our greater service neighborhoods and communities.

What you drive home - is how the humanity is sucked out of our Peoples, in all of our divine diversities, by prejudice and fear.

Yours is a very important post.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 8/10/13 11:14pm
Msg #480050

It's obvious by the OP's verbiage that he is anti-semetic

and/or intimidated by long beards.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/11/13 9:18pm
Msg #480144

Re: It's obvious by the OP's verbiage that he is anti-semetic

Well, however obvious it might be, I don't believe that name calling or putting labels on people ever does anything to elevate a discussion. In fact, I think it's generally part of the problem and not part of the solution. When these types of issues come up, I suggest we instead focus on the unwanted behavior itself and address that, rather than attacking the person. (Isn't that kinda what we're objecting to in the original post to begin with?)

If we can do that, we may have a chance to actually get someone's attention, encourage them think about the behavior, and maybe even make a positive difference, rather than just further inflaming attitudes and reducing the back and forth to personal attacks - which accomplishes nothing, imo.

I believe it's a basic principle of conflict resolution - something that could undoubtedly be applied in many, many ways on this forum...