Posted by SANTA CLARITA MOBILE NOTARY on 8/19/13 12:00am
Msg #480964

Warning! Scammed By Attorney Jay Vogel of West Hollywood, CA

First time in over 10 years. I guess I should consider myself lucky. That doesn't mean I' m going to let it go and let this criminal lawyer (no pun intended!) get away without paying me. In hindsight, I'm sure he's done this to other notaries.

I have called, emailed, etc. with empty promises and now unreturned calls. It was suggested that I file a small claims court action against him which intend to do as it is a substantial amount, but I want other notaries to know about this lawyer's shady business practices. He will just go on to the next notary with the same sob story that he forgot to bring a check, then that he'll pay online, then say his bank account was hacked into, etc. etc.

Mr. Vogel hired my services at a jail facility on a Friday, 4th of July weekend, kept me waiting for hours -- all at no additional charge. I don't know about you but I don't like working for free.

Notaries beware!

Denise O'Dell

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/19/13 12:09am
Msg #480965

Orange search button - msg. # 480809 n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 8/19/13 12:12am
Msg #480966

The CA Bar Assn - you have one there? Send him final notice letting him know you are going to report him there, along with the usual other place. Give him 5 days, show him the copy so he knows you are ready to act. If he has to hand deliver to you so be it. Follow through, you have already been merciful.

Reply by SANTA CLARITA MOBILE NOTARY on 8/19/13 6:25am
Msg #480967

Attorney Jay Vogel of West Hollywood, CA

This is attorney Vogel's reply to my email:

"I apologize for my lack of communication. I have been traveling back and forth between LA and NYC as my godmother has been very ill. I havent made payment because I have not been paid by this client or, for that matter, all but two of my other clients. Consequently, I have not had any funds available over the past two months other than for necessities. I should have told this to you sooner, but I kept hoping that one of my clients would actually pay me. I will borrow the money from a relative and pay you by the end of this week."

Story after story with this guy. I'm a very compassionate person, and we all have our problems. I just dealt with two very close family members who passed away this year from cancer, but I have always remained professional and getting thru it. I pay my bills...And I don't make promises I can't keep.

Thoughts?

Reply by jba/fl on 8/19/13 7:11am
Msg #480968

I don't see Charity as part of your name. n/m

Reply by Christine/OK on 8/19/13 7:36am
Msg #480969

LIKE!! :D n/m

Reply by 101livescan on 8/19/13 8:13am
Msg #480971

Re: Attorney Jay Vogel of West Hollywood, CA

I think that it is criminal that this turkey hasn't paid you for your July jail service. I would give him til 5pm today to remedy this overdue payment, then send your complaint into the CA Bar Association, and take him to small claims court.

Good luck.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 8/19/13 7:46am
Msg #480970

It's easy to collect from attorneys when you know the right buttons to push. See Msg #325273

Reply by jba/fl on 8/19/13 8:14am
Msg #480972

A little search button usage would have turned that up.

C'mon people, let's apply a little elbow grease. The Lord helps those who help themselves.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/19/13 8:14am
Msg #480973

A little search button usage would have turned that up.

C'mon people, let's apply a little elbow grease. The Lord helps those who help themselves. (not you, Copper)

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 8/19/13 10:02am
Msg #480978

....this is WHY I get paid up front! I wonder when the f**k

is the lesson going to be learned? Sorry for my vulgarity, but this type of post just burns my bridges, because it could've been avoided! Denise, you could've avoided get ripped off by this creep by simply asking for payment up front. Period!

I almost go out of my mind when I read these type of posts because its so obvious that the one at fault is the poster or nsa, and not the client, no matter how much of scumbag they are.

Why in the world would anyone work for free?

First, not only should you have asked for payment when he met you at the jail, literally in the parking lot of lobby of holding, or where ever, before his client came out, or shit, even while the client is there, have no shame, and ask for your payment!

Second, the fact that he kept you there for hours, and you stayed after the first .15 minutes is just utterly ridiculous! You should have left after .15 minutes or called him and have him agree verbally to pay you additional for your time! Then once he got there, calculated the amount he owed you for the add'l time, plus your gn fee, etc, and insist he pay you cash, credit / debit or check.

I ask for prepayment for all my transactions because it not only ensures that the client will show up, most of the time, on time, but that I am fully paid.

Some clients do not like this method, so I offer, and for those that are in a 10 mile radius of me, the option to pay via credit / debit card, from my smart phone. PP has a nifty tool where the mobile app lets you scan their card, enter the required information, like amount, their information, and bam, once approved, money in your PP acct. Then you can proceed with the job hired to do. If they don't pay, you walk, simple as that!

Last, its just bad business, and utterly stupid for anyone to go to a job site and expect payment after the job is done, especially if its not a closing. And even then, depending on the hiring party, I always ask to be listed on settlement/hud.

Sorry Denise, but you painted a bullseye on yourself by not asking for payment up front.

Reply by 101livescan on 8/19/13 10:43am
Msg #480981

ESPECIALLY for jail work! Up front, before anything else! n/m

Reply by Alz on 8/19/13 11:00am
Msg #480983

Ditto..All jail and/or detention centers GNW. It's

my company's policy. The only time I will forego collecting up front is if I have been paid a retainer in the past and money is still left on the books.

Reply by SANTA CLARITA MOBILE NOTARY on 8/19/13 4:14pm
Msg #481037

This was a licensed attorney we're talking about not an inmate

For Chicago notary: Sometimes you have to wait to get paid after the job is done.

When you go to a customer's home or business to notarize a document do you ask them before you get in the door to hand them your money first? I usually wait until the job is done and they hand you payment without even asking. That's the way it's normally done! Maybe they do things differently in Chicago!

This is the first time this is ever happened to me. However, I have learned my lesson and in certain situations (Especially when I'm dealing with lawyers), and whenever possible, I will ask for my money up front.

Everyone else... thank you for your helpful comments!

Reply by SANTA CLARITA MOBILE NOTARY on 8/19/13 4:23pm
Msg #481040

.. if it's for an inmate, I always get paid upfront!

I do jail notary jobs all the time so I know what I'm dealing with. Iif it's an inmate or their family member who is requesting services of course I get the money upfront. This was a licensed attorney who like a lender or title company you would think would would act professionally and keep their word.

I guess you just can't trust anyone these days. But all I know is in this business you cannot always get paid in advance.

Reply by rolomia on 8/19/13 12:31pm
Msg #480994

Credit cards would be okay were it not for client fraud!

Said non-paying lawyer from West Hollywood could agree to the credit card charge when he meets you. Then, later, he can call his credit card company, claim that he doesn't recognize the charge and dispute it, leaving you with a charge reversal fee of $25 or more. And, checks can be reported stolen. I ONLY accept cash when conducting GNW. I tell the client that BEFORE we meet. If they don't have the cash in their hand when I show up, I leave, immediately. Even then, I use a portable counterfeit detection system that I bought on clearance at Office Max. I trust strangers about as much as I trust our government to look out for MY interests. yeah, right! JMHO

Reply by SANTA CLARITA MOBILE NOTARY on 8/19/13 4:00pm
Msg #481034

Re: ....this is WHY I get paid up front! I wonder when the f**k

Easy for you to say. I've been doing this a long time and not everyone will pay you up front including signing services. Have you ever been paid up front from The signing service, lender escrow company or title for a loan signing? It doesn't work that way? If it did you wouldn't have any business at all

And there was absolutely no reason for your offensive cussing. What are you 18 years old?

Before you go shooting off your vulgar comments you should walk in another's shoes. That's all I git! You should think twice before you go shooting off your comments about subjects you obviously know nothing about.

Get a grip!

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 8/19/13 10:03am
Msg #480979

Some info.

You may already have this info, but here you go anyway.

http://members.calbar.ca.gov/fal/Member/Detail/136926

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Attorneys/LawyerRegulation/FilingaComplaint.aspx

http://rules.calbar.ca.gov/

Thank you for bringing this information to the forum. It may save one of us in the future, because according to the California Bar Association, he has no disciplinary actions against him.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/19/13 10:45am
Msg #480982

Re: Some info....just a hint..

If the CA Bar works like the FL Bar - just because it says "no disciplinary actions" doesn't mean he's not done anything wrong and there have been no complaints filed against him - just means there have been no complaints that the bar association felt were worthy of pursuing and imposing discipline or sanctions on him. Therefore, the complaints that have been filed will never be on their profile.

Trust me on this - I know this is how Florida is - unfortunately learned from recent personal work experience. And you'd be amazed how the attorneys can refute these complaints so they get dismissed. Unless they are of the most egregious offenses, the Bar associations turn a blind eye.

Sad but true - here.

Reply by SANTA CLARITA MOBILE NOTARY on 8/19/13 4:28pm
Msg #481043

These attorneys don't care if you report them to the State Bar

It's a joke to them. That's in California anyway. Another California attorney told me that by the way.

Reply by SANTA CLARITA MOBILE NOTARY on 8/19/13 4:28pm
Msg #481044

These attorneys don't care if you report them to the State Bar

It's a joke to them. That's in California anyway. Another California attorney told me that by the way.

Thank you tho : )

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 8/19/13 5:26pm
Msg #481062

Just trying to be helpful.

I have no real experience with any attorneys because in my neck of the woods, most of them have a notary on staff.

I also have no experience with jail notary work because (I believe) that one of the bail bonds companies here in town has a notary. The closest other jail is in Cal City (Marian Harmon's area) and I know they don't allow outside notaries in as they have a staff notary.

It doesn't come as a huge surprise to me really that California attorneys don't care if you report them to the Bar or not, although if I were an attorney, I would certainly care about my reputation. The fact that he has no disciplinary actions on the website is moot, because as Linda pointed out, that is probably inaccurate and may not reflect complaints filed and dismissed.

Regardless, I find the information useful because on the surface, he looks kosher. I collect my fees for GNW up front, after I have logged my journal entry and the client has signed my journal. I don't expect to collect fees up front with loan signings (although it would be nice), so to mitigate my risk, I do my best to work with only the best companies. I say that because as we all know, companies can go downhill before their reputation here reflects any change. Some companies also puff up their own ratings dishonestly. It's probably safe to say we've all been fooled at least once.

I sincerely hope you get paid.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/19/13 11:41pm
Msg #481121

Not a joke at all - worked for me. n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 8/19/13 11:01am
Msg #480984

Many have replied on how to collect. Sorry you're caught up

in that. The thing that caught my eye was "kept me waiting for hours--all at no additional charge". How did you let that happen? First, I wouldn't have waited for hours & would have left after a reasonable amt. of time (less than an hr.). Granted, I wasn't there & don't know the circumstances, but you still have to set limits. I've found that getting jerked around is a big warning sign.

Reply by SANTA CLARITA MOBILE NOTARY on 8/19/13 4:54pm
Msg #481055

I'm guessing a lot of you don't do jail notary jobs.

A lot of people have taken my post out of context and have gotten way off track.

All I was doing was trying to help other notaries to avoid being scammed. And all I have gotten is a lot of criticism about the way I handled things. I don't need anyone trying to tell me how to do my job especially in a very nasty way.

Most jails, you have to wait for the attorney to arrive. This particular attorney kept calling saying he was in traffic etc. No problem. I still was able to fit him in.

After we got there, a pass is cut to bring out the inmate. After that, the Deputy brings the inmate out to speak to attorney re documents, then you have to wait for the deputy to come back to have document signed. Lot of waiting involved!

Every situation is different, and this was one of those times. I was not about to get up and just leave after spending all afternoon waiting. Jail jobs are different than regular notary assignments. it's not just in and out. That's why the pay is much more than with loan signings or standard notary job.

I'm done with the comments and replies. In the future, I will think twice before posting any thing on here.

Thanks for all the positive feedback.

Reply by 101livescan on 8/19/13 5:50pm
Msg #481069

Re: I'm guessing a lot of you don't do jail notary jobs.

Don't let negativity keep you away from this forum. I'm sorry you got stiffed. It only happens once, then you learn, right?

Not everyone here is a basher, gnasher and rubs your face in the dirt. There are a lot of great members on this forum.

I hope you are successful in small claims court. Believe me, Jay Vogel does not want to be standing in a small claims courtroom in front of the Commissioner trying to explain why he can't pay his notary for her valuable service to his client.

Good luck!

Reply by MW/VA on 8/19/13 7:36pm
Msg #481092

Thanks for letting us know how that process work. It's

obviously very time consuming and, yes, I had no idea. My apologies.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/19/13 7:39pm
Msg #481093

I am confused though, because you were the one that said

"kept me waiting for hours at no additional charge". You didn't indicate that was SOP for these assignments.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 8/20/13 9:42am
Msg #481140

Santa Clarita...the point of my reply to your post was NOT

to bash you in any way, nothing personal, and I apologize for offending you.

Its unfortunate, and I too, many years ago, got brow beaten, but was actually grateful for it, at the time no, but now yes. And so you too now know, that this particular forum have folks that will tell it to you straight up, no beating around the bush, when it comes to posts such as the one you originally posted.

I've done jail work, and its not really that much of a difference in my state/county. However, what you got bashed on, was HOW you handled it.

By not getting paid up front. And that is the lesson that you should learn here. That is what everyone that has posted "negatively" is basically telling you.

You run a business to make money, income aka a profit. If you run it properly, including getting paid up front, or before you do any notarial work, your losses are very minimum.

Good luck to you in the future, and report this scum bag to the ARDC in the state that he is licensed in...assuming he is licensed lol.

Reply by Lorraine Lougheed on 8/19/13 3:35pm
Msg #481027

"KEPT ME WAITING FOR HOURS--AT NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE!!!" "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?" First of all, an attorney does not take a case without a retainer for his future client, second if you let him keep you waiting for hours at no additional charge and over a major holiday weekend,you were already letting him know that you are one to be taken advantage of. I always take payment in advance via Intuit on my iphone from an attorney. I have not been burn or had a reversal, I make sure to get all the information including the code on the back of the card so there is no excuses later, I also have them fax the ok to charge the card, that way I have a signature on file. On that note... FYI - I have also charged some agencies in advance via Intuit. I think we need to all somehow turn this industry into getting payed in advance for our services.