Posted by pat/WA on 8/24/13 6:24pm
Msg #481767

no subject for this

I just had to turn a young girl down I felt really sorry for her. Her brother is in jail and she needs his signature notarized. He has no ID. She says his jailers know who he is but with no ID I didn't notarize his documents. Does anyone know if there is a way I could have helped her?

Reply by PegiT_MN on 8/24/13 6:35pm
Msg #481769

Wow......that's a very good question. I'm not sure here.......but can you use two credible witnesses? If the jailers know who he is, would they vouch for him, and would that be legal?

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/24/13 6:38pm
Msg #481770

Jailhouse blues

I don't know what ID rules are in WA, but I can tell you that his jailers don't necessarily *know* who he is, either, unless they have some fingerprint/DNA match going on. I "learned" this when I used to do notarizations at the county jail, and the deputies told me the inmates would give them phony names and phony IDs all the time so they never really knew who they were dealing with sometimes. I assume they got it all straightened out by the time they went to court ... but that was one of the reasons we can't use jail wristbands for ID.... only prison-issued ID.

Does WA allow identifying credible witnesses like CA does? If so, this is the perfect time to use them ... when a signer has absolutely no ID. The problem is getting the jail to allow you - along with two other people to come in to take an oath that they know the prisoner personally, etc. and then you could notarize him. At least that's how it would work in CA. And I can almost guarantee they wouldn't allow 2 witnesses inside along with the notary here. These deputies are waaaay tooo grumpy and hard a*****!

Reply by 101livescan on 8/24/13 6:55pm
Msg #481773

You've heard the expression lock em up & throw the key away?

Well, my own experience of jail work is the Jail staffers don't much feel like helping inmates with notarizations. In fact, the jail at SB County is so overcrowded, and the staff is completely over with being nice to these "I'm innocent" citizens, they could care less how long it takes to get you in and get the job done, much less helping with ID issues.

In August alone, 71 DUI arrests were made, and we're already hearing how the CHP, Sheriff and PD on the Central Coast are doing over time patrolling roads, highways and parking structures for inebriated citizens drinking in public or trying to drive somewhere.

Cars will be impounded, parents trying to get permission to bail the cars out need their children's ok to do with a notarized authorization signed by legal owner of the vehicle. Craziness.

I'm staying close to my hammock, rake and shovel. Off the roads this next weekend.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/24/13 6:45pm
Msg #481771

This from your Washington manual:

"(8) A notary public has satisfactory evidence that a person is the person described in a document if that person: (a) Is personally known to the notary public; (b) is identified upon the oath or affirmation of a credible witness personally known to the notary public; or (c) is
identified on the basis of identification documents"

Doesn't seem to me you have many options, and unless the jail issued him an ID card you can accept, I don't see what you could have done. What happened to his ID? Did the jail confiscate it and have it locked up?

Reply by pat/WA on 8/24/13 6:55pm
Msg #481772

I don't know what happened to his ID. If it was a drivers license, it probably would not be current or it would be suspended. I don't personally know anyone who could vouch for his ID.
The sister has a real problem. Maybe she should as an attorney for help. I felt so sorry for her.

Reply by ikando on 8/24/13 7:22pm
Msg #481775

I refuse to go to jails or prisons. Too many hurdles and too much time involved for the fees people are willing or able to pay.

But I refer people who call me for that service to bail bondsmen. They often have offices close to the jail, and they are familiar with the system. Many either are, or have on staff, a notary to help with documents. Perhaps there are some in your area.

Reply by Luckydog on 8/24/13 8:20pm
Msg #481776

I would refer her to a bail bondsman. They do this stuff all the time, and they have to have legal papers to bond the guy out with ways and means we do not have, or would even want to take the risk.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 8/24/13 9:54pm
Msg #481781

"(c)is identified on the basis of identification documents"

This used to be the Illinois NP law until a few years ago.
It now provides that that the ID doc need to be a valid State or Federal issued ID with pic,
and signature.
An "identification document" can be just about any instrument with a name that the NP
believes to be authentic and sufficient. If I was confident that I had the correct person before me,
I used to accept all kinds of IDs.
This, of course, was only applicable for GNW, as Patriot Act requirements may differ by lender.

Reply by Darlin_AL on 8/24/13 8:30pm
Msg #481778

The state I live in allows great latitude to the notary public in establishing identity of a signer. Taking the document into consideration, so as not to put myself into a court squabble, I would consider sister bringing the guy's birth certificate, baptismal cert, utility bill(s), pay stub, bank statement, etc. If the jailers have him with the matching name to a vehicle reg., and the situation of his arrest was a warrant, sister vouches who he is & provides you docs--here it would be allowed if I had satisfied myself as to his identity. If it's a car to get out of impound, that's pretty harmless but I would not notarize a deed probably, under those circumstances. OK, here I go sliding down the razorblade of "accomplice-after-the-fact". But get your $ up front!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 8/24/13 9:28pm
Msg #481780

Sister should contact his atty the minute he has one. Bro's

got ID somewhere...he was fingerprinted when booked?...

Anyway it's sliced, it's going to take some time and patience.

Hat tip: We were reminded today that - This Too Shall Pass - just as my Grandmother used to say, blue sky or gray, and I found great comfort in the remembering.

So, I'd tell the sister to find out his PD (Public Defender) asap, and at least demand her brother be positively ID'd so the System can move forward... Make the time passing with deeds toward goals.

Or something like that.

Reply by Paula/OR on 8/24/13 10:53pm
Msg #481783

In Oregon the handbook instructs "If a person is confined in a correctional facility and needs to have documents notarized, identification used to identify the incarcerated person shall be the ID that is used in the facility to positively identify an inmate through examination or comparison of official government documents or records." I use the booking card which includes a picture.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 8/24/13 11:24pm
Msg #481786

Aha! OR handbook does have a provision for this. Who would've thunk (LOL) to refer to the official resource??? (sarcasm here)

Seriously, though. All of us should keep in mind to always first refer to our State's Handbook when a question arises.

JMHPO

Reply by jba/fl on 8/25/13 7:22am
Msg #481789

Emotions aside, sometimes you just cannot help people,

or save them from themselves.

Reply by CJ on 8/25/13 10:10am
Msg #481799

This is on the test.

What does your handbook say you can use for ID? You are supposed to have this memorized (so you know what to say when people whip out their Costco card or Birth Certificate.)

Basically:
1. State issued DL or ID.
2. Passport issued or stamped by US.
3. Military ID that meets criteria (photo, description, signature, etc.)
4. Two credible witnesses
5. PRISON ID.

The prison could not possibly have all those people running around with no ID. Frequently it is a bracelet.

Reply by pat/WA on 8/25/13 4:29pm
Msg #481859

All is Well

She found his drivers license