Posted by Marian_in_CA on 12/19/13 3:12pm
Msg #496653

Jail really does happen...

I'm not necessarily trying to place a spotlight on any particular poster, but GG said earlier the following: "I have never read about a CA notary getting in serious trouble over anything despite all the huffing and puffing by the SOS." This was said in response to me saying, "...here in CA we could end up in jail for violating certain expectations of our job."

I said "could" not "will" -- there are some violations that are criminal and may end up in jail time. Each case is different, and a jail sentences is a possible outcome in certain situations. To think otherwise, IMO, is a tad foolish. What I said is 100% accurate. In CA, perjury is a felony, and it *could* involve jail time if the circumstances support it. Every acknowledgment we sign her ein CA is done under the Penalty of Perjury --- so we place ourselves there each and every time. Fraud or forgery by a notary involving a Deed of Trust? That's a big-time felony.

GG, I find it hard to believe you haven't paid attention to stories about notaries getting in to trouble over not doing their jobs...much less going to jail. I say this with the utmost respect for a notary colleague... but really?? It can and does happen. In fact, to help with that, I've got a call in to the Sec of State's office and was transferred to one of their supervisors to see if they can send me the statistics on this.


But, a simple Google search can bring up plenty of examples:


Let's start with Mario McKinley, shall we?

See: http://bit.ly/1ers3lO

Excerpt: “McKinley’s notary journal … placed him inside the decedent’s home,” according to the statement. “Based on McKinley’s statements and the notary journal, criminal charges were filed against McKinley and Preston.”

He entered a guilty please for forgery.
Source: San Bernardino Superior Court: Case FSB1105506 Defendant 1725786 MCKINLEY , MARIO EMILE



And here's one for something that happened right in the little town where I live:

Elizabeth Torres

http://www.californiacity.com/122211ccpd.pdf

Sorry, this is a PDf file/press release. The people who run the website aren't exactly well versed in technology. They do everything by PDF.

"Notary Elizabeth Torres, 29 of Santa Ana had been charged with two felony counts of fraudulent notarial acts. Court documents allege Torres knowingly notarized false or forged deeds of trust. Torres pled no contest to accessory to a felony in March of this year and was sentenced to 10 days incarceration, three years’ probation and loss of her notary commission."


There are tons of other references out there.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/19/13 4:37pm
Msg #496661

PS...

Their office got back to me and asked that the request be in writing so the request can be handled by the right department, depending on what I ask.

I've had a great history with them responding to my requests, so as soon as I get some numbers, I'll happily post them here. In my experience they take 1-4 months to respond to written requests, depending on the topic. I think the reason for that is because it has to pass through several hands for approval and review.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/19/13 4:50pm
Msg #496665

I'm of the belief that regardless of whether or not I have ever heard of another notary being jailed for their notarial infractions, I never wish to be one of them. Therefore, you don't have to tell me twice NOT to do a certain thing. I'm good with the first warning. <smile!>

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/19/13 5:00pm
Msg #496666

Ditto agree n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/19/13 5:00pm
Msg #496667

That's the truth! n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 12/19/13 5:19pm
Msg #496669

NOT advocating wrongful NP acttions, but in both

instances cited , the NP was an active and knowing participant in a criminal act, I assume,
with the intent to make a profit far in excess of legitimate notarial compensation.
I would be very surprised if you learn of any instance where a NP was jailed merely for a
minor violation of NP law, where the NP was not acting with a criminal intent.
Only posting this, so that readers will not fear jail because they once notarized a signature of the
proper and intended signer, where the ID was a little "off" or they did not keep a journal in
strict accordance with requirements,, etc. etc.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/19/13 5:32pm
Msg #496670

Re: NOT advocating wrongful NP acttions, but in both

Wow, you're right...I could have left my finger prints at a future crime scene. Now wouldn't THAT be something.

Head lines read something like, Crime solved based on investigation by detective I.M.Stupid:....."Notary arrested for grisly murder based on fingerprint evidence on Documents found at crime scene."

I just had to say this Bob, 'cause I though it was funny.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 12/19/13 5:56pm
Msg #496675

Bob - in California, penalties and imprisonment are not for

little errors, but errors where fraudulant activity is involved.
Also, if the Notary Public is aware of, but continues to notarize forged documents.
It takes more than an ID that is a little "off".

By the way, hi Bob.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/19/13 5:37pm
Msg #496671

In those examples you gave, Marian, people were jailed for breaking the law, pure and simple. Those were serious offences that went way beyond "violating certain expectations".

I believe we should keep in mind that our responsibility is to uphold the law - not someone else's interpretation of it. If a notary doesn't feel comfortable with their own interpretation, then the workbook is undoubtedly a good tool to use. But it isn't law itself and I think that's an important distinction.

As Lisa alluded to, if we follow the law, we don't have to worry about being sent to jail for notary infractions. So yes, we should always follow the law. It's the right thing to do - and that's why we should do it, not just out of a fear of going to jail. So I think GG has a point. Frequent references to "going to jail" tend to sound like paranoia after a while and may even distract from the point.

Frankly, it doesn't really make a difference to me whether or not some notary has ever been "caught" and sent to jail and I think it's unfortunately that the SOS staff is going to have to use up some of their time to respond to that type of a request. You and I have both seen plenty of flagrant incompetence by notaries to know that they have their hands full in trying to raise the bar, so to speak, when it comes to the proper execution of our duties.

jmnsho

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/19/13 5:45pm
Msg #496674

Missing that edit button... ;)

S/b "unfortunate", not "unfortunately". Got interrupted by a call for a signing, so I won't complain too loudly...

Reply by ananotary on 12/19/13 8:35pm
Msg #496706

Janet- another 5 star post! Also agree with Bob. Show

examples that are not criminal in nature would be more effective for this argument that has been brought up over and over and over again. Also agree that it is a waste of time for the CA SOS to spend any time compiling this information.

Reply by Bear900/CA on 12/19/13 6:46pm
Msg #496687

If there were laws for bad signings a lot would be in jail n/m