Posted by TinaCA on 12/9/13 6:45am
Msg #495562

Notorizing Wills

Hello All:

I just received an email asking if I would notarize a will. He stated to me in the email, that his bank or the town hall will not notarize a will. The will was from Legal Zoom.com. What are your thoughts in regards to this.

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/9/13 6:54am
Msg #495564

Check your state law. In many states, Wills do not need notarization.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/9/13 9:23am
Msg #495573

Ditto agree..can't tell if you're in Ca or CT

In Ca you can find the answer in you 2013 notary handbook.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 12/9/13 9:36am
Msg #495577

Really? NO notarization? That's crazy!

Does anyone know just how many states DO NOT require notarization's for Wills?

Reply by VT_Syrup on 12/9/13 10:50am
Msg #495585

Re: Really? NO notarization? That

From what I've read, in my state (Vermont), witnesses are required and may have to appear in probate court to prove the will. Notarizing won't invalidate the will, but the witnesses will still have to prove the will, so the notarization doesn't accomplish anything.

I'm not a lawyer and the above only serves to explain why I wouldn't notarize a will; other people will have to seek competent advice.

Reply by Darlin_AL on 12/9/13 11:07am
Msg #495590

for AL, it makes the will "self-proving" (+witnesses) n/m

Reply by CarolF/NC on 12/9/13 8:25am
Msg #495565

Wills are notarized in NC, but.....

most banks, government agencies even our UPS stores will not do Wills, Trusts, PoA's and serious documents that may get them called into court or challenged at some time in the future. They don't want the liability and they don't want their time tied up with legal challenges. I've seen legal zoom documents that are not compliant with NC, but technically we are not responsible for the content, but then if I know the document is not legally compliant as a notary should I notarize it? Our SOS Notary Division is split on that decision. There is no formal ruling or opinion from them on this.

Reply by MW/VA on 12/9/13 8:53am
Msg #495568

Yes, I've notarized Wills. Many people are pulling their

documents from LegalZoom & other websites. VA is very picky. While I tell them I can't give legal advice, etc., I do let them know that just because I'm notarizing the signatures it doesn't necessarily make the document legal. I did hear of a probate issue here where the Will was declared invalid because the witness signatures weren't notarized.
Check your CA laws, of course.

Reply by CarolF/NC on 12/9/13 9:22am
Msg #495572

Looks like OP is in CT not CA, but I've been wrong before

I believe wills are not notarized in CA

Reply by EJC/LA on 12/9/13 9:05am
Msg #495570

If I ever manage to pass the notary exam, my rule would be: I won't notarize any will that I don't draft. (And, those online wills (LegalZoom, etc.) are FAR from La. compliant.)

Reply by HSH/WA on 12/9/13 9:21am
Msg #495571

RE: We don't draft legal docs - UPL. n/m

Reply by CarolF/NC on 12/9/13 9:23am
Msg #495574

They can in LA...which is why passing the notary exam is

difficult. They are almost an attorney there from what I understand.

Reply by HSH/WA on 12/9/13 10:58am
Msg #495588

Re: No kidding? Why not just go on and be an atty? n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 12/9/13 9:28am
Msg #495576

Most of us aren't LA notaries

And we don't draft docs...so, as plain ole notaries, not document drafting LA notaries, it is not for us to determine validity of docs. Just verify identity and witness signatures, for most of us.

Reply by Esther Korn on 12/9/13 1:16pm
Msg #495602

I worked at a bank for a few years and their policy was NOT to notarize wills. I kept to that policy in my own professional life. Wills are frequently contested in court and I simply refuse to be involved in those types of situations. Not worth it.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 12/9/13 9:51am
Msg #495578

In many cases, the notariztioion is of the witnessess'

signatures, wherein they state that they witnessed the signature of the person executing the will.
It is done to expedite the admission of the will to probate, without the witnesses being present in court.
Again, subject to the laws of your state.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/9/13 10:09am
Msg #495580

Witness yes notarize no.

I do a lot of work with Trust attorneys and when it comes to the will, I ALWAYS witness it but never asked to notarize it by the attorneys.

Reply by ikando on 12/9/13 11:19am
Msg #495593

Re: Witness yes notarize no.

In Oklahoma, I also work with Estate Planning attorneys. There is a clause included in most wills (which may include the LegalZoom version) which makes it a "self-proving" will, which means that the signatures of the witnesses are notarized, as someone mentioned earlier, which releases the witnesses from future court appearance. It states that the witnesses are of legal age and not related to the testator (maker of the will), and that they witnessed testator's signature and believe him/her to understand what they're signing.

In other words, I notarize the signatures of the witnesses, who swear that they watched the testator sign the document under the above conditions. And, as mentioned, sometimes it can take a while getting everyone's information (I always include the testator) in my book and sworn in. Take that into consideration when pricing.

Reply by BobbiCT on 12/9/13 10:04am
Msg #495579

Notorizing Wills in CT

Done all the time; just time consuming at only $10 maximum plus 35 cents per mile for travel. Although SOTS doesn't put it in manual, make certain signer agrees to a round-trip travel fee upfront (from where you start from, to signer, to your next appointment). Straight notarization. Legal Zoom printed instructions are easy to follow.

Just be certain there are two witnesses there when you arrive, over age of 18, to save "waiting time." I CANNOT give you legal advice as to who can/cannot be a witness, but signer should already have this information from Legalzoom.

Banks and town clerks don't want to do this because of needing THREE people at the signing and the TIME and space it takes to complete a Will signing. Employers do not want 30+ minutes from employer-paid (or taxpayer paid) time to do these. In addition to current time not attending to bank and town business, potential for future time out of work and EMPLOYER liability (notarizing on employer's time and within employer's business walls) if Will is contested by disgruntled heirs or other issues YEARS later when signer is dead. Although FedEx eventually "won" the case, the XXX non-stop publicity changed employers' "train our notary" attitude to a "just say no" to notarizing attitude.

Reply by Stoli on 12/9/13 10:23am
Msg #495581

HANDBOOK has been silent since 2005

The State of California, Secretary of State, NOTARY PUBLIC
HANDBOOK has been silent since 2005. See Page 18.
“WILLS
The California State Bar advises that when a notary public is asked to notarize a document
which purports to be a will, the notary public should decline and advise the person requesting
the notarization to consult a member of the California State Bar. If an attorney recommends
that the document be notarized, a notary public may do so.”

All further reference has been removed from subsequent handbooks.

Reply by Art_PA on 12/9/13 10:30am
Msg #495582

There is more to notarizing wills than notarizing the will. There are often powers of attorney & health care directives which are included in the package, and if it is for a couple, 2 of everything. Sometimes people want to notarize duplicates.

Often people download & print their documents, and there can be confusion about which pages go with which document, or the formatting is bad, so you have to figure out how to arrange the piles. this takes time.

Often the witnesses' names and addresses must be printed on each document, and since you are notarizing their signatures, they must each have valid ID. This takes time.

Witnesses are not always on time. This takes time. Sometimes the witnesses forget and are not home when they are called, and the signers have to try to call other witnesses. More time.

If you don't know what you are doing, there is a good chance you will screw it up and have to redo the job for free.

The point is that you should know what you are doing, allow at least 1/2 hour, and charge accordingly. Be sure to tell the signers that you will charge extra if everyone is not present when you arrive.

I hope this helps.

Reply by HSH/WA on 12/9/13 10:56am
Msg #495587

Re: Art, good post. n/m

Reply by Clem/CA on 12/9/13 10:36am
Msg #495584

Advise the client to check with a lawyer. Most wills in Ca. only need two witnesses

Reply by jnew on 12/9/13 11:12am
Msg #495592

JMO but I would not draft my own or any others' wills. Advise inquiring party to spring for an attorney and they will draft it according to the wishes of the individual(s), they will also provide non-interested witnesses and see that it is properly executed (and notarized if State requires it). Does anyone else think it might be risky to notarize a home-made will?

Reply by HSH/WA on 12/9/13 11:38am
Msg #495596

Re: We notarize the docs, not judge them. n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 12/9/13 11:39am
Msg #495597

Let's not overthink this

We notarize signatures on documents.
I have no problem notarizing signatures on LWTs, drawn up by att'y, online websites, or the testator or their agent, either typewritten or handwritten.
If I get called in to court, I charge $40/hr for my time, + travel expenses.

Reply by HSH/WA on 12/9/13 11:43am
Msg #495599

Re: I've never been to court - yet.

But who do you make pay if you are called to court? Of course you ask for the funds up front - yes?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 12/9/13 11:56am
Msg #495600

I bill whomever subpoenas me, usually an att'y for

whomever is contesting the validity of the will.
No, I don't get funds upfront. I send a bill for the actual hours and actual expenses.
The funds (I believe) are from the plaintiff or the estate of the testator, paid from the att'y.
Funds (so far, and only twice, FYI) hae been received net 30.

Reply by Marazz/AZ on 12/9/13 2:21pm
Msg #495609

Re: I bill whomever subpoenas me, usually an att

In most states, witnesses of fact are not usually paid. The attorney may pay you, or reimburse your expenses, but they do not have to, and if push came to shove you have no grounds for collecting.

If you are testifying as an expert witness, you can negotiate a fee with the attorney up front. It's probably wise to get paid up front or at least set a minimum fee for booking your time that day in case of a last minute settlement. But I can't imagine a case where a notary would be an expert witness.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/9/13 4:41pm
Msg #495623

Agree Marazz...only if called as an expert are they

required to pay - most times witness fees are governed by statute (I remember in CT the Marshalls used to serve the subpoena and give them a nominal fee for their appearance - and I really mean *nominal*)

If subpoenaed to testify as a part of the transaction (like a notary and their journal), no payment is absolutely required - that's something that's set by individual statute. Not sure what it is in FL - I did some for a civil suit a couple years ago - no fee was paid to the witnesses that were subpoenaed.

Reply by rengel/CA on 12/9/13 7:05pm
Msg #495641

RE: subpoenas

In CA, the CA code states that a witness is paid $35 plus .20 per mile from your home to the venue. Period.

Stinks, but that's the way it is

My .02