Posted by CarolF/NC on 12/3/13 10:41pm
Msg #494902

Pricing - Is everyone focused on 8



This is an area that all traveling notaries need to be an expert on. When a hotel in Vegas rents rooms during the slow times, they charge around $80. But, when things speed up, the same room could be $300, right? Notaries need to think like this. If someone wants you to travel 20 miles in rush hour, charge one fee. If someone wants you to travel 20 miles to do a slow signing at the end of the month when time is in short supply, charge a higher fee. If the job is on a slow day when there is no traffic, you can charge less if they don’t like your regular price for traveling notary work.

What you charge is up to you, but here are the components you should use in a pricing formula for traveling notary work.

(1) Time spent
(2) How valuable the time is when the job is assigned, i.e. end of the month, time is more valuable as there are more jobs.
(3) e-docs, extra fee
(4) Unknown company? Charge a bit more to compensate you for your risk.
(5) Miles – charge based on how far the job is and how long it will take. Windy mountain roads take longer than open freeways, and Los Angeles traffic takes longer than Oklahoma traffic.
(6) Pickup and delivery of documents. Charge for your time.
(7) Does the company cancel a lot? Charge extra.
(8) Are you desperate for work? Charge less.
(9) Three or more signers on loan? Charge more.
(10) Eight or more notarized signatures or a really long loan package? Charge more.
(11) Company owes you more than a few hundred dollars? Turn the job down until you get paid.
(12) Company has a bad reputation for not paying notaries? Decline the job.

Your exact fee for each act is up to you, but the forementioned twelve points are what you need to think about. Here is what I recommend.

Basic signing: $75-$125. Adjust based on how busy you are.
E-documents: $25-50 per double set. Adjust based on how busy you are.
Pickups: $40 extra. Could include some waiting time.
Dropoffs: $30 extra. There is less waiting dropping off.
Reverse mortgages: $125-$175. These are time consuming and long.
Piggy backs: $100-$150. These are long, but not always time consuming for traveling notaries.
Travel fee for mobile notary work: $35-$75 depending on what time it is, how far you are going, etc. Jail, hospital, and late night jobs should be billed on the higher end of the scale, while close daytime jobs should be billed on the lower end.

Please read our hospital blog for pricing information about hospital jobs.

Please share your opinions.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/3/13 11:27pm
Msg #494911

Umm... isn't this a cut and paste from another blog?

Specifically the numbers site blog?

I don't know about you, but there is a LOT wrong with this original "article".

Instead of re-writing it because I'm feeling far too lazy. Here's a cut and paste from post, which I wrote ( Msg #488879 ), back in October.


C'mon kids... put your big pants on and learn how to make $$
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I posted this the other day deep inside another thread... but I think it bears repeating, especially given that nausea inducing blog post from SSC (see Msg #488786 ) -- ugh. When my migraine goes away, I may find the energy to go over that puppy sentence by sentence.

For now.... here's what I wrote the other day (with some edits) regarding making a profit. This is BASIC business management people. If you're in business for yourself and you can't figure out this simple formula, you're killing your own business.


Walter H asked, "My question is what is a fair profit margin that we Notary Signing Agents Should be looking at..."

There is no such thing as "fair" profit margin. You profit margin is personal and needs to be based on your individual business needs. You have to do a lot of market research, both industry wise and for your local area. You also have to consider your individual needs to know how much money you need to be making.

While you should know and consider what your competition is charging in your profit margin... you shouldn't use it as a primary factor, IMO. The primary factor should be YOUR individual needs and figuring out if this business will help you meet them.

Simply put...and this is really simple to paint the picture with rounded numbers. It's not exact...just an illustration.

Consider how much money you need, personally, per month/year/whatever. Take that and add it TO you business expenses for the same period of time.

Let's say you have monthly business expenses of $2,000. Recall that these expenses also include business taxes, not just paper, toner, gas, insurance and such. This is EVERYTHING that it costs to open, run and maintain your business. Consider things like utilities, internet connection, mobile phone and the like.

In order to survive personally -- outside of your business venture (pay the mortgage, eat, etc.), let's say you need a personal income of $4,000 per month, gross. That means your business needs to pull in at least $6,000 per month in invoices ($2,000 in business expenses PLUS personal gross income).

If you're a loan signing agent who averages $150 per invoice, that means you need to handle about 40 loan signings per month at $150.00 each. Now, you may think...well shoot, I can charge half that ($75) and double my appointments and still make the same amount of money, right? NO. Remember that the more appointments you have, the more monthly expenses you have. There is NO SUCH THING as volume work for individual singing agents. Don't fall for that trap. Volume work assumes you can control your business costs and make a higher profit overall. At the signing agent level, there is little, if anything you can do to do that. Your average expenses per signing remain essentially the same whether you handle 40 appointments or 80.

In my example, it would mean one's average expenses per loan signing is $50. That means you'll have a profit of $100 per signing. Now, just because this is "profit" remember that this $100 is what you're actually pocketing. That $50 expense is just that... an expense. It's money that's GONE and you're not being paid for it. You're only making $100.

If you only charge an average of $75 per loan signing, you still have that $50 expense.... and you've gone form making $100 to $25. Think about that... that means you will need to be doing FOUR times the amount of work to make the same amount of money. You could do 80 signings at $75 and still make $6,000. But the thing is... your average cost per signing is still $50. If you do 80 signings at a cost of $50, your business costs go from $2,000 to $4,000... which means you've cut your personal income in HALF even though you've done twice the work. In what world does that make any sense? You need $4,000 per month to survive. By doubling your workload and slashing your price i half, you're increasing your business expenses and decimating your personal income. If you need $4,000 a month (gross...that's before personal taxes) to survive and only pull in $2,000, meanwhile you're overworked, exhausted and broke. How long will you last?

No folks, Don't fall for the "any money is good money" line -- it's not true. You're going to find yourselves deep in debt and overworked.

Do not apologize for YOUR profit margin. Your profit margin needs to cover your personal and business goals... not the desires of other companies. If they won't meet YOUR fees, then move on. There are plenty of good companies out there who will. They're harder to find and get on with...but they do exist. Leave the low paying companies to deal with the uneducated who will overwork themselves and get in to debt quickly disappearing once the tax man starts sending nasty letters. I cannot tell you how many notaries I've met who think they're stealing all my business by charging half of what I charge, gleefully rubbing it in my face... just to find that in a year (or less) they're no longer working as a notary.

BTW... yes, I fully realize that, for many, certain business expenses are tax deductible and some notaries may choose to take the self-employment exemption, etc. For the purposes of my illustration I wasn't going to get in to all of the specifics of that. Those are all individual circumstances that impact the expenses per appointment. My example of that $50 expense assumes all of those are essentially calculated and the $50 is the expense after all of that is factored in. Trust me when i tell you that $40 - $60 average cost per loan signing is actually pretty accurate when everything is factored in.
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Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/4/13 3:00am
Msg #494919

Re: Umm... isn

Thanks for re-posting this, Marian. I think this is very sound advice, and much needed in times like these. And this is a perspective that I think many miss.

Reply by BobbiCT on 12/4/13 6:25am
Msg #494923

Well stated as always ...

Sad that it seems like the professionals have to post this reminder every few months. I hope many pay attention to their business model and net profitability BEFORE they are hit with their federal and state income, social security, etc. tax payments due by April 15.

For me, not being in a big city with residences every 50 feet, $80 e-docs are not profitable and, as you stated, an increase in low fee volume does not mean an increase in net profit. If you are printing and driving your car twice as much, your costs double. As a few have found out and generously shared here, if you are running a business that routinely operates at a loss and an IRS audit determines it is a "hobby," unpleasant tax payments will be due.

Marian, thanks again.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/4/13 3:09am
Msg #494920

Carol, I think it's great for you to share your opinions on this subject, but I would recommend modifying how this is presented. Some may find it helpful to get other people's thoughts on this subject (and I note you did ask for other opinions), but I would recommend avoiding phrases like "Notaries need to think like this", or saying what someone else "should" do or what they "need to" think. And if, in fact, this was copied from someone else's blog, I agree with Marian, that it should be attributed. Always.

I think there are some points worth considering in this piece, but there's also much I disagree with. Too late for me to get into, but everyone has to consider their own marketplace. There are usually a variety of ways of addressing a subject and these points only address one perspective.

Reply by 101livescan on 12/4/13 7:56am
Msg #494936

I agree, Janet. If I worked in a larger metropolitan area, my fees would reflect the high cost of living, say, living and working in downtown LA, parking fees, rents are more, etc.

So these numbers Carol has presented may be good for her area, but not applicable across the US, depending on saturation of notaries, or scarcity of notaries in rural areas.

I get more for traveling late at night or mountainous regions. Hazard pay!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/4/13 5:21pm
Msg #495021

Right. Plus, in a highly competitive area like mine, nickle and diming and constantly re-negotiating fees could get you scratched off many companies' lists. There will always be exceptions, but I'd rather start off at a fair enough fee to where I don't have to worry about some *minor* issues here and there.

Reply by CarolF/NC on 12/4/13 8:02am
Msg #494938

Sorry for the confusion....

I did not write it. Came to me in a group email where the topic of conversation was item 8. Sorry I do not know the source.

Reply by Luckydog on 12/4/13 11:21am
Msg #494955

Re: Sorry for the confusion....

If you work for SS, they prefer easy closers without the nickle and dime charges at each closing, and being consistent in your set fees. Too much competition to charge a different rate for each closing within reason. JMO