Posted by sheltn on 12/26/13 7:10pm
Msg #497092

to certify copy of id

how is this notarizied

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/26/13 7:42pm
Msg #497095

Well, it would depend on the certification laws ....

of your state, if any. But basically, your guy could make a photocopy of his ID, he would write/type on the document that it is a true and correct copy of his ID, you would administer an oath that the contents of the document are true, he would sign and you would notarize his signature and complete the jurat.

Reply by Roger_OH on 12/26/13 9:11pm
Msg #497097

Why would you require a jurat?

Since the copy the fellow just made would obviously not contain a notary certificate, how can you determine on your own that his signed statement requires a jurat certificate?

As with any other doc without a certificate, shouldn't he be given the choice between an ack and a jurat certificate?

If he chooses to just acknowledge his statement, why wouldn't you just do so by using an ack certificate for his signature? You're only notarizing his signature, not the statement content.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 12/27/13 12:13pm
Msg #497115

Gotta luv it....Playing the devil's advocate, Roger.... n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/27/13 1:38pm
Msg #497123

Re: Well, it would depend on the certification laws ....

I said the notary *could* do such and such, and if the notary chose to do it that way, then the notary and signer *would* do such and such to accomplish that. The Document Custodian doc is an NNA doc as far as I know and is not a CA form but is commonly used to accomplish what the OP asked (actually OP asked two completely different things: how to certify and how to notarize). If you feel an ack would work, go for it.

Reply by Laurie Manzanares on 12/26/13 10:33pm
Msg #497101

Can be done by "Copy Certification by Document Custodian".

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 12/27/13 12:17pm
Msg #497116

Re: to certify copy of id...so true, Laurie. n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 12/27/13 9:23am
Msg #497104

Depends if your state's notary laws permit it. We do have

it in VA & I have a stamp with the specific language.

Reply by walthtz on 12/27/13 9:38am
Msg #497105

Re: Depends if your state

Check your state laws.
in NJ, we are NOT allowed to Notarize a Copy of ID., Only the issuer can.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/27/13 12:13pm
Msg #497114

Geez

Please note that I did not *REQUIRE* anything. I used the words *DEPEND” (on his state laws) and *COULD* possibly do such and such. LM suggested it *CAN* be done with a Copy Certification by Document Custodian, which reads: (note that by its very format, it calls for a jurat):

I, _________, hereby declare that the attached reproduction of _______ is a true, correct and complete photocopy of a document in my possession or control.
____________________________________
Signature of Affiant

State of _________
County of ______________________} ss.
Subscribed and sworn to (or affirmed)
before me on this ________ day of
_____________________, 20________, by
__________________________________,
proved to me on the basis of satisfactory
evidence to be the person(s) who appeared
before me.
_________________________________
Signature of notary public

Reply by Roger_OH on 12/27/13 1:12pm
Msg #497121

Re: Geez

GG, you wrote "You would administer an oath that the contents of the document are true".

So is the format you showed a required form for CA Document Custodians?

In the absence of that form, or in other states, my contention is that the signer can simply be acknowledged if he/she so chooses, just as they would with any other doc without a preprinted certificate.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/27/13 3:12pm
Msg #497131

Re: Geez

I'm not aware of there being any official status for "CA Document Custodians" (there's no reference to that in the CA notary Handbook, at least), however here's another reference that I believe is relevant to this issue:

"Among the acts which constitute the practice of law are the preparation,
drafting, or selection or determination of the kind of any legal document, or giving advice in
relation to any legal documents or matters."

This is not in the actual legal code that's included in our Handbook, but it's on the 2nd page of the Handbook, in the General Information section, primarily a restatement in simpler language of the legal code that follows. (I have no idea as to whether or not it's stated elsewhere in California law but not included, since it isn't exclusive to notaries. Anyone else have a clue?)

I believe this reference is what is commonly used to support the conviction that a CA notary is not only not allowed to provide/recommend a document to a signer, but that they also shouldn't recommend/determine which type of notarization should be used.

Point is, that according to this, providing that form to someone could be considered UPL. It would be interesting to know if that statement is the result of any state law or is just added as a recommendation by the state bar (or ??). It's a fairly broad statement, but my guess is that the intention is to protect notaries from getting in over their heads. A line needs to be drawn somewhere and that's probably as good a place to draw it as any.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/27/13 3:28pm
Msg #497133

Re: GG is correct...About the existance of the form

That is a pre-printed form put out in 2004 and again in 2007 by XYZ.......Anybody wanting to see the actual form can email me and I'll send it to them.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/27/13 3:50pm
Msg #497135

Re: GG is correct...About the existance of the form

I never use that form, as I believe providing it could be considered UPL. I just explain the situation to borrowers and have them write out a statement in their own words, then sign it. I also have them decide which type of notarization to use, after I explain the differences. Frequently, they hand write the statement right on the photocopy itself. (BTW, I have been known to mention the existence of that document by name to someone who Googled it on their own... )

I've been doing this for many years and, so far, I've never had anyone come back to me to say that the document was rejected (including mostly handwritten ones). I *have* had a few come back to me later (like the next year) and do it again.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/27/13 4:05pm
Msg #497137

I have never used the form either..I

was just responding to your post about "Official" Doc.

I am not afraid of being accused of UPL.....We all do it everyday as "citizens".

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/27/13 4:22pm
Msg #497140

I start with the following approach

I first explain to the person that notaries in CA will witness a signature to a written statement. We do not just stamp something (i.e. the back of a photograph) or stamp a piece a paper or photocopy of something. There has to be a statement (the person is declaring something) that the person signs their name to.

In other words, YOU (Mr./Ms. Customer) must *say* something about the photocopy of the ID. Therefore, you'll write a statement about the photocopy of the ID and then sign your name under that. THEN, I fill out a notary certificate that represents that I saw you sign your name to your *statement*.

So far, saying it that way clarifies what's what. If the person asks what to write, to avoid UPL, I ask them to repeat what they told me about what they needed. Then I say, "Write that down".

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/27/13 4:25pm
Msg #497141

Correction...piece "of" paper n/m