Posted by neenop on 2/1/13 6:44pm
Msg #453499

BEWARE PLEASE READ ALL NOTARIES--IT MAY SAVE YOUR LIFE

I did a signing through a signing company on January 4, 2013. While surfing the web, i found out that the signing i did was for a CONVICTED RAPIST----Please everyone, please carry some sort of protection while doing closings, whether it be in the day or the night. This has literally scared me to death. The other day, before I knew this, I bought some pepper spray and carry it in my notary bag...........
Perhaps a background check before signings wouldnt be a bad idea...........I did put in a call to the signing company so I can let them know about this situation. PLEASE PLEASE BE CAREFUL EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 2/1/13 7:13pm
Msg #453506

Were you uncomfortable in this persons home? This is the risk we take going to peoples homes. As for carrying pepper spray if they were really a threat do you think you would have the time to find that pepper spray? Your in someones home what would happen if you were overzealous and sprayed someone in their home and they meant no harm? Perhaps you should look for another profession?

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 2/1/13 10:50pm
Msg #453556

I believe that anyone, male or female, need to be cautious and use common sense when entering someone's house. Although I don't sign any longer, my routine for 5 years was that my husband or someone always knew where I was. They had the name of the borrower(s), the address and a phone contact. I would always call when I drove up to the borrower(s) house and they always had a pretty good idea how long the signing woud take -- single, double, purchase, etc. If I had not called within a certain amount of time (as to what kind of signing it was), they would call me.

I never took my purse into a signing. I had my brief case, which I always left open with my pepper spray clearly visible, along with my cell phone. I must add, also, that not one borrower was ever offended by the pepper spray. I never had to use either while at the signing table. I always left my car keys in my lap (in case I did needed to get out quickly, and also I could use for self-defense, if needed) -- again, never the need. I always checked for exits before even sitting.

Signings are not for everyone, and if someone is realloy freaked out by the unknown, signings are probaly not a good choice for them.

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 2/1/13 7:33pm
Msg #453511

<I did put in a call to the signing company so I can let them know about this situation.>

..and you expect them to do........what??

Reply by neenop on 2/1/13 7:45pm
Msg #453513

goodness me, all I was doing was making people more alert.........hello........another profession? I have only been scared twice......come on.........just everyone be on your toes. I think the signing company needs to be aware, and so do some other notaries that I have told this too. Be careful everyone!!

Reply by anotaryinva on 2/1/13 7:48pm
Msg #453514

Are you saying

That you checked out the BO before the signing and went anyway? Maybe I'm confused?

Reply by anotaryinva on 2/1/13 7:50pm
Msg #453517

Reading this again,

You checked out the Bo AFTER you did the signing? Why in the world would you do that?

Reply by Christyl/CA on 2/1/13 7:51pm
Msg #453518

Re: Are you saying

No, What she is saying is that she was stalking the borrower after the signing.... creepy!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/1/13 7:50pm
Msg #453516

I can appreciate why you're concerned and why you'd

want to warn notaries to be careful...

Not sure I'd have contacted the signing service from a closing that took place a month ago - seriously, what can they do? Not sure what you expect them to do - I don't see any SS, or TC for that matter, doing background checks on borrowers...

Reply by hodgy on 2/1/13 8:17pm
Msg #453521

Re: I can appreciate why you're concerned and why you'd

She is just warning people so that they are aware that this could happen to them. Of course the Signing company can't or wouldn't do anything but I really don't think jumping all over her is called for. I am pretty secure with myself and my size but I certainly can understand a woman's concern. She is saying be careful.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/1/13 8:26pm
Msg #453524

Umm...I didn't jump all over her... n/m

Reply by Laurily on 2/1/13 8:32pm
Msg #453526

I think your absolutely right! and anyone posting a cocky post and being ignorant is ridiculous-I take heed in your warning-I had a signing where every red flag was going up and the guy just had a creep factor to him acting very suspicious and locking the door behind me made me very uncomfortable...we are VERY susceptible to dangerous situations with this job-but it doesnt mean I wont take precautions...thanks neenop and be safe out there!

Reply by Mung/CA on 2/2/13 12:43am
Msg #453572

That's why I travel w/an angry monkey on steroids! n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/1/13 8:22pm
Msg #453523

Unfortunately, this is part of this job. We have no way of knowing the pasts of the people we are going to go see. That's why we should always have safety precautions in place prior to attending our appointments, no matter who or where. Background checking them won't help. Besides, the person may be a convicted rapists, but they have the right to refinance their mortgage, don't they?

I'm not excusing criminal behavior here at all.. but the existence of a record (including placement on a sex offender database) is not the whole story nor does it mean YOUR life is in danger r even at risk.

I'm not really sure why you tell the signing company this... I mean, what can they do about it? Why does it even matter? I'm not asking to be mean to you per se, it's a general question because I'm curious.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/1/13 8:39pm
Msg #453528

Yes, everyone be careful...but if you're truly truly

uncomfortable and you're "scared to death" meeting with people in their homes, perhaps public places are your alternative. It will reduce your risk factor AND your stress level.

I don't even think of this stuff when I take assignments or afterwards - it never enters my head - maybe it should...IDK. IMO if I'm scared to do the job I'm doing, I'm not gonna do this job.

Just a thought and JMHO.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/1/13 8:43pm
Msg #453529

I would never have taken a weapon into a borrower's

home, and agree with other posters' reasonings.

Background check? On borrowers? Whoa, Nellie - in my considered opinion: that's a very bad idea on every level I can think of, not the least of which, is legal in nature.

My opinion only, but hopeful you seek advice from employment mentors, Mobile Notary professionals, or a local Avon Lady. And too, I'd encourage you to take a Surroundings Awareness ('reading a room')/ Personal Protection (Self-defense without guns/knives...) classes. There are some experienced members here who have great resources in those venues.

Best of luck to you.

Yours is an important post

Reply by Blueink_TN on 2/1/13 8:52pm
Msg #453532

Re: I would never have taken a weapon into a borrower's

Agree with you Susan. Always be on your toes, looking for unsafe circumstances. Follow your gut, people. If you feel uncomfortable, excuse yourself and let yourself out.

Reply by Jessica Ward on 2/1/13 8:59pm
Msg #453535

Reiterating Susan's thoughts, plus specific recommendations.

I used to work in public policy--that's where my training and career always were until I determined that my being a lobbyist was bad for my family. One of the first interests that I worked for was the right to bear arms crowd. No, I'm not packing heat into closings, but I'm VERY well trained in self-defense, and I have taught some self-defense and firearms classes (no longer certified).

In the course of all of my experiences, I had the opportunity to take a wonderful class called "Refuse to be a Victim." I've not taught this class, but it was one of the best practical self-defense classes I've ever taken, and I'm 100% confident that it saved me a lot of grief--I recall using the techniques learned in class several times in my days of walking/busing hours to work each morning. The program was developed by the National Rifle Association.

This is a NON FIREARMS class. There are no guns. No discussion of guns that I recall at all. It's strictly about evaluating danger and techniques for diffusing it.

This class is especially great for women IMO (I think it was developed for women).

It was on my mind just the other day, because I'm thinking of enrolling my 14-year-old daughter.

For background, I TOTALLY understand your fear. My husband is a mental health worker and works exclusively with high-level sex-offenders. Needless to say, our family has different "rules" than most families (My kids NEVER go see Santa or the Easter Bunny at the mall) (My husband has met plenty of them in treatment before!) We don't frequent county/state fairs, and we avoid a lot of other high risk occasions (major sporting events, etc) , especially since we have two little girls.

He worries about me doing this kind of work, but not compulsively. My location is always tracked by using Google Latitude on my phone. He can always tell where I'm at. My calendar is shared with him, and I don't have a problem excusing myself from a closing if I feel threatened in any way.

That said, I've conducted many signings where I knew borrower/signer was on house arrest. Never a problem.

My #1 worry is still always hoarders, and the ill. I had a signer this morning with flu. Will be staying home a couple of days to make sure I don't share that lovely gift. :-/

Reply by Blueink_TN on 2/1/13 9:30pm
Msg #453541

Re: Reiterating Susan's thoughts, plus specific recommendations.

Awesome post Jessica- thanks!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/1/13 9:31pm
Msg #453542

Re: Reiterating Susan's thoughts, plus specific recommendations.

I don't think it's a bad idea for a female notary to ask a lone male borrower to meet in a public place if she is getting vibes that she'd rather not be behind locked doors in his house. We can tell alot about people from their loan app and during the confirmation call. Granted, that's stereotyping, and lots of times when you get to the signing, people turn out to be not at all like who we thought they'd be. Single, male borrowers are not that all that common, so it wouldn't be a big issue. I think the reverse can be true, too. Male notaries might think twice about meeting a single woman in her house. I believe there have been more than a few posts about women borrowers making accusations. And none of this is any reason for any of us to consider another profession, either. If a female notary is freaked out about meeting a male borrower at his home at least ask if a public/work place would be OK or give the signing back,. Most guys with half a brain would know what's going on.

In any case, I think the fact that these people applied for and were granted a loan trumps all. They just want a better mortgage. It's not like the creeps who call up women Realtors, asking them to meet at some empty listing out in the boonies ....

Reply by Malbrough_LA on 2/1/13 10:07pm
Msg #453547

I concur with Gold on this one. Sage advice, actually...

I've had quite a few that were single females and I did not and would not meet them in a private place. (Sorry, my interests come first in those situations!)

Past that, for protection, get a briefcase large enough to hold a ball peen hammer and learn to swing like Babe Ruth. (that's a joke, folks.....for those of you not already aware.)

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/1/13 10:50pm
Msg #453555

Re: Reiterating Susan's thoughts, plus specific recommendations.

Right on GG.

If one is so inclined, one might consider a policy of "public places" only?

On the other hand, in my neck o' the woods as it were, that policy would have been severely limiting in the whole concept of Mobile Notary.

If I were to do a big Drive-to-Mountain-top-Favor tomorrow, I'd take my dog, Mello. Hardly anybody doesn't have/love dogs, or understand why he's co-pilot, plus I trust his judgment of character/surroundings.

An excellent whistle can be 'jewelry,' and my car 'key' has a PANIC button that's really LOUD.

Notarize, don't analyze, but keep that spidy-sense...

Reply by 101livescan on 2/2/13 9:44am
Msg #453609

In all my years in this profession, I've never found myself in a compromising position when I go to someone's home. The borrowers are generally hospitable, kind and pleasant.

These days, most people are just happy to be getting their loan done after months of waiting for loan approval.

Most people who are applying for loans are resposible parties, have great credit scores and high loan to value, they are not flaky. If I'm going to a remote area to meet a borrower, I usually google them and their addy.

Since most of my work is through local title companies and I know the loan officers well, I'm 100% sure I'll be safe and secure and have no issues on their territory. Many come to me to meet me in my office.

I am working on a concealed weapon carry permit, but it is not for my mobile notary work. I've only found myself in a bad neighborhood once or twice, and I called the borrowers to ask them to come meet me at my car and walk me up to their homes.

Common sense must prevail! I have felt less safe when posting homes for foreclosure and in "gang prone" neighborhoods, but I always did these early in the am while everyone is sleeping it off.

I would never carry a weapon on my person when entering a person's home for notary work, no matter what I learned about their background.

From time to time I do a "sex offenders" search in my area, and last summer learned that my nearest neighbor on the next 40 acre parcel is registered as a sex offender. He's a really nice person and has a landscaping design business, keeps to himself and has a girlfriend living with him. She's a student at the community college in town. I'm pretty sure it happened that when he was young, he was dating an underage girl, and the parents went after him.

You never know who you're going to meet, no matter where you go! but it's advantageous if you can do your own due diligence before entering unknown territory.

Reply by Barb25 on 2/2/13 11:40am
Msg #453624

AHA. Another post that took on a life of its own and

many choose to narrow it down to one sentence and nail the OP to the wall. And miss the message.

No, she should probably not have called the SS. No point. Why she surfed the web and found the BO after the signing (??) is not clear. But the point is taken. Every now and then we all go into situations where we have to wonder what iin the world can we be thinking? And not all predatory crimes are committed by people who look like criminals or have records.

A couple of weeks ago, I had a signing in a "town" without paved roads and the borrower met me with his truck and I followed him back into the woods on awful winding dirt roads with big ruts about a mile. I thought OMG my life may be over. He was the nicest guy. It was eeire. I have had a few scarey. I try to avoid that "town" these days. But who knows. I have Onstar. We can only be ALERT and try to be safe and smart. And be lucky. Read the papers. This is life in 2013.

I think she just wanted to remind us.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/2/13 12:05pm
Msg #453630

Yes she did want to remind us..however, it took on the life

it did because her discovery was made *after* the fact, she notified SS *after* the fact...and she is scared to death *after* the fact - her own words. So I stand by my statement that if she truly is scared to death, perhaps alternative locations may be in order for signings from now on. I hate to say this but, in all honesty and respectfully, if she IS scared to death now, she may be looking at alternatives means of income too if this line of work has scared her to death.

But I'm reminded of my "safe" office job not so long ago - convenience store owner shot and killed at 1:30 on a Friday afternoon - 2 doors away - and our front door was open during business hours. Made me think "wow, what if they ran in the office?". But I only thought that for a little bit, then moved on.

The fear is only fear is you let it be. Being able to get by it and be vigilant is the key.

JMHO

Reply by Barb25 on 2/2/13 1:40pm
Msg #453640

Re: Yes she did want to remind us..however, it took on the life

Linda. White flag... I was not taking shots at you or anybody for that matter. Actually, I agree. Great idea. Alternate location if there is any doubt. I get the feeling that the point gets lost in the post for the "other stuff" sometimes that was all.

Also for myself I may add.... Ask questions of the borrower. And there is nothing wrong with asking to meet in an alternate location. Like I said not more unpaved roads. When I got home that night (and believe me this BO was wonderful). I said to my husband "I was petrified driving there" "How would anybody have found me" He joked of course because I was safe and said you have OnStar. Well it is nice to know they could have found by body though OnStar. The point, with no joking is that I will never do that again. I just NEVER thought about it BEFORE. You only have to be unlucky one time. Barbara's Reality Check. Boing!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/2/13 12:43pm
Msg #453632

No unpaved roads!

""A couple of weeks ago, I had a signing in a "town" without paved roads and the borrower met me with his truck and I followed him back into the woods on awful winding dirt roads with big ruts about a mile""

My No.1 rule as an NSA is to identify the person in front of me as the person the lender wants signing the docs. My No. 2 rule is no unpaved roads! I learned this the hard way during my first commission, when I was bumping and grinding (my car, not me) through horse country at night and totally tore my poor car up. I know that many of you live in uncivilized areas and thus have the proper vehicle to traverse such terrain. I'm totally city, and if some guy wants me to follow him (and notice that he, of course, had a truck) a mile over "awful winding dirt roads," ain't gonna happen. He needs to meet me at the nearest McDonald's.

I also had an exception: if borrower's house on an unpaved road could be seen from the paved road, that was OK. I'd drive that part. I still grieve for my poor ex-car.

Reply by Barb25 on 2/2/13 1:43pm
Msg #453642

Well, GG - Your Rule No. 2 is now My Rule No.2 :) n/m

Reply by Barb25 on 2/2/13 1:51pm
Msg #453643

Re: Well, GG - Your Rule No. 2 is now My Rule No.2 :)

And from here on I will tell the hiring company upfront when I take the job (if I take the job). "If the signing address is on unpaved road and difficult to drive to, I will only do it if they borrower will meet me at an alternate location." Obviously only certain towns/areas have these issues.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/2/13 2:04pm
Msg #453648

Re: Well, GG - Your Rule No. 2 is now My Rule No.2 :)

Right, Barb. It's pretty easy to tell from the signing town/address if you're going to be in trouble, and Mapquest will actually say "parts unpaved" in its directions. At which time I call the borrowers and ask them how much and how far unpaved. All unpaved roads are not necessarily killers; still, no matter how well maintained the road, I always notice everybody's got trucks and jeeps. (Not me.)

Reply by Deborah Breedlove on 2/2/13 3:32pm
Msg #453661

I'm just curious why you would be checking on the criminal record of a borrower from a month ago. Did you pick up some really bad vibes from him?

Maybe it's just me, but once I've completed a signing and dropped the package, I don't give it another thought. In fact, by the time the check comes in the mail, I've even forgotten what the borrowers looked like. Unless it was a particularly memorable signing for some reason, a month later it's just a name on the invoice.

So I'm curious what prompted you to look him up in the first place.

On a side note - In our county, the convicted sex offender registry is online, and we can even pull up a map and see where they all live. When we first heard about this a few years ago, we pulled it up and found that there was a sex offender living in our subdivision. It turned out to be a teenage boy who had been convicted of statutory rape for having consensual sex with his teenage girlfriend. I think she was about a year younger than him. Her dad had called the police when he caught them together. Seems that these types of cases should be in a different category from a violent offender.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/2/13 3:37pm
Msg #453662

"Seems that these types of cases should be in a different category from a violent offender."

I agree 100% with this statement. There's all the sides of the story...

Unless it involves a young child - then all bets are off..

JMO

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 2/2/13 6:49pm
Msg #453691

I did a closing w/ a couple that had to take their kids to

school even though it was only 2 blocks away b/c there were TWO convicted child molesters within a 2 block radius! I begged the parents to PLEASE, PLEASE get their HOA to put these monsters' pics on EVERY pole, fence, etc & WARN the school officials! Also, to let their kids know what these monsters look like! I HATE (strong word - I know) anyone who victimizes children! No kids of my own, but they are the SCUM OF THE EARTH! I rips my heart out & makes my blood boli every time I hear about a child abduction/rape/ killing!!!

Reply by jba/fl on 2/3/13 12:33am
Msg #453732

Many of the sexual predator databases are out of date.

One for this area still shows one living in a vacant house - vacant for past 2 years. I don't think I would base my actions on these sites at all.