Posted by grapebed on 2/11/13 8:41pm
Msg #455339

Backdating backlash

A local T/C hired me to do a closing on Saturday, February 9th. So I picked up the docs on Friday Feb. 8th. They are a good client, pay in three days and generate an average of $750/month revenue.

I did not take a close look at the docs until Saturday. Anyway, all the documents ( the HUD, TIL, Note, Deed,etc) were dated February 8th. I did the signing and dated everything for February 9th. I delivered the docs this morning. This afternoon the TC officer contacted me, blood boiling, asking me why I didn't date everything for the 8th and that they would have to hire someone to do a resigning back dating everything to Feb. 8th.

What should I have done, said, etc.? I was appalled. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Reply by Buddy Young on 2/11/13 8:44pm
Msg #455340

the only date I put on anything or have the signers put on all docs is the current date. I believe what the SS ask you to do is illegal. Backdateing

Reply by DebraOro/CA on 2/11/13 8:47pm
Msg #455342

Never, Never Never !!!!!!
Character and Conscience are Priceless !!!!
Besides, it's colder than hell in Jail !

Reply by Malbrough_LA on 2/11/13 8:56pm
Msg #455346

it's colder than hell in Jail...

I will neither affirm nor deny if I have personal experience with the aforementioned statement, but no...they do not provide one with Snuggies™ or electric heaters. Though I suppose you could get inventive with body heat if you have a cell mate....

Reply by DebraOro/CA on 2/11/13 9:07pm
Msg #455351

Re: it's colder than hell in Jail...

I sure couldn't personally attest either.......................but that
thought sure is SCARY !!!!!!
hhhahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahh

Reply by Buddy Young on 2/11/13 8:51pm
Msg #455343

If the docs were date sensitive they should have had you sign on the 8th.

Reply by Malbrough_LA on 2/11/13 8:53pm
Msg #455344

Per your MO handbook,

Instructions for Completing
Sample Affirmations
(1) Name of the state in which the notary certificate is being completed.
(2) Name of the county in which the notary certificate is being completed.
(3) The date the notary certificate is being completed by the notary.
(4) The name of the month the notary certificate is being completed.
(5) The year the notary certificate is being completed.
(6) The name(s) of the person(s) who signed the document and whose
signature you are acknowledging.
(7) Your official name style as a notary public.
(8) The name of the document you are notarizing (usually found at the
top of the page you are notarizing, or the first of multiple pages).
(9) Your official signature as a notary public.
(10) Impress your notary engraved embosser seal or black inked rubber
stamp seal here.
(11) Affix your rubber stamp here, or type/print the information required
by law concerning your notary commission (refer to page 25 regarding
rubber stamps).

Pay close attn to #3. Past that, ask yourself a few simple questions. Is what you're doing {as a notary} providing authenticity and legality (some of you may bristle at this term/concept...yes I know) to a document? Would you ever argue with someone that today (the date of this post) is the 11th of February, 2013? If yes, have your head examined. If not, you already know how to proceed.

Reply by Valerie Watts on 2/11/13 9:24pm
Msg #455358

You did the right thing. That's fraud and they know better, and hopefully any notary they call will tell them no. Sorry you had to lose a good paying client, but it isn't worth risking your good name, not to mention your commission.

Reply by JerryhFL on 2/11/13 9:26pm
Msg #455360

Are we talking backdating your notarial certificate or changing the document dates?

Reply by grapebed on 2/11/13 9:49pm
Msg #455366

Notarizing a document dated February 8th on February 9th. I notarized everything dating each document February 9th. Client wanted it back=dated to Feb. 8th.

Reply by grapebed on 2/11/13 10:14pm
Msg #455373

He assumed that I knew to back date the docs.

There was no email from him l that said "all documents are to be dated Feb. 9th" nor did he say anything prior to the closing about back dating. He did not have his dirty his finger prints on anything. Squeeky clean

Reply by desktopfull on 2/11/13 11:14pm
Msg #455385

You think this guy cares if you face jail, fines or both?

He's not the one jeopardizing his future, you are if you agree to his illegal request. Ask them to put that request in writing and watch how fast they hang up on you, they know they are making an illegal request.

Reply by CJ on 2/11/13 9:57pm
Msg #455368

My thoughts.

#1. Gee, too bad that YOU messed up THEIR loan! Now they have someone to blame (besides themselves.)

#2. It's a felony to backdate, and it's a misdemeanor to suggest it (I think because suggesting it is "conspiracy to commit a crime". If you DID do it, not only would you be in trouble, but I think the borrowers would be in trouble too, if you all agreed to commit the felony of backdating. And since backdated notarized docs are no good, it's the same as unsigned, un-notarzied docs. The loan is technically unsecured. And what would happen if someday the borrowers wanted out of the loan and mentioned that they whole thing was backdated?

#3. The title company has no integrity. HELLOOO! Which one of us wants to work for someone with no integrity? Today is backdating, and what about tomorrow? Lying to the customer? Lying to you? Throwing you under the bus for their mistake? Not paying you?

MAJOR red flag to me. Sort of like dating a guy who says it's okay to hit women "sometimes". Why hang around for that?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/12/13 12:06am
Msg #455388

Maybe I'm misreading this... when you said, "I did the signing and dated everything for February 9th," do you mean just your notarial certificates, or did you actually go through and change the dates on all of the documents, including those not notarized?

"Backdating" only refers to times when you are asked to make the date on your notarial certificate be a day previous to the day you're actually performing the act. Of course that's a huge no-no. It has nothing to do with the dates on the documents themselves, though. It's entirely feasible that the date of the document can be different than the date of the notarization. For an example, with an acknowledgment.... the date on your certificate refers to when person acknowledged that he/she signed the document, not necessarily the date he/she actually signed it. A lot of people don't really understand that distinction.

I routinely get packages where the dates are off. Of course, I only ever notarize signatures with a date on the day the notarial act takes place... I mean, that's the law. I don't really care about the date on the document....with some minor exceptions, such as if it's a sworn statement, but I've found that a lot of those aren't pre-dated anyway.

Let me give you an example of one had just the other day. The package was put together by escrow and the mortgage company mistakenly told escrow the documents would be signed on day X. Well, that didn't happen because neither the borrowers nor I were available to make that happen. No big deal, though. Escrow said, just leave all the dates on the documents as they are, unless the borrowers wish to change and initial them. The only exception is the RTC, which they instructed me to have them actually correct and initial. Also, any of the documents that had a date line where they signed, were of course, to be signed with the date they actually signed. The escrow officer wasn't terribly concerned, and neither was I. I see this happen a lot. The borrowers were given the choice to correct whatever dates they felt they wanted to correct. In the end, except for the RTC they only corrected the date on the Note, but they really weren't terribly concerned about it themselves either. Everything else, including anything signed under oath, had a date line blank next to their signature that they filled out themselves.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 2/12/13 6:17am
Msg #455392

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I understand that in some states, one of the criteria to decide that a certain note goes with a certain mortgage is that they have the same date. So if the mortgage got changed but the note didn't, that could be a problem. And of course I understand that the date in the notarial certificate must be the actual date of the notarization no matter what.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/12/13 8:34am
Msg #455405

I wouldn't worry about it. You did what you have to do,

which is have the borrowers sign with the correct date & notarize accordingly. IMO the main reason for not backdating is that it affects the 3-day RTC, and I wouldn't mess with that one. We do not backdate--period! Too bad if he's angry.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 2/12/13 11:41am
Msg #455446

Why didn't you tell the TC officer that its totally illegal

to do what they asked? C'mon, I can't believe you posted this and then ask what you should have done? Sorry, but this is common sense!

I don't care how good of a company they are, or if they pay within 24 hours! Just because they have a good rep doesn't justify this idiot TC officer having you do something totally illegal and jeopardizing you, your rep, company and/or biz...not to mention potentially going to jail!?!

Geez....common sense dictates here. You did nothing wrong, but should've told that idiot off, tactfully of course. And if they don't use you in the future, oh well, at least you have your dignity & morals, unlike that TC officer.

The date used for all closings/signings, is the actual date you are before the BO...no brainer.

Reply by Resilient/MD on 2/12/13 12:17pm
Msg #455456

Re: Why didn't you tell the TC officer that its totally illegal

You did nothing wrong for the exception of not telling that T/C where to go. How dare people. With my mentality, I would have taken this straight to the top. I just bet this T/C messed up royally on this closing and tried to fix it on your expense/license/commission......NOT....All I have to say....LET THIS HAPPEN TO ME. I been in this business for 27 years and I thought I seen and heard it all, but this one here is the first. I can really tell some stories.

Reply by SharonMN on 2/12/13 3:04pm
Msg #455508

Re: Why didn't you tell the TC officer that its totally illegal

Not to mention that they never even asked you to backdate. They asked you to do a signing on the 9th. You did. You dated all the docs the 9th. Somehow you were supposed to magically guess that they didn't want you to do what they hired you for, and instead backdate the documents for a different date. Wow.

Reply by FormerEO on 2/12/13 12:15pm
Msg #455455

Anyone that asks another entity to break the law should be held accountable. Charlie Manson did not murder anyone himself...

If I got something in writing from them (like an email) that addressed that issue directly I would be hard pressed to refrain from turing them in to the authorities.

Perhaps HisHughness can address the legal aspects of knowing a crime is about to be committed and not reporting it. What is the legal exposure?

Reply by RalphNC on 2/12/13 1:02pm
Msg #455474

we work in real time only ... never backdate for any reason.