Posted by CJ on 2/7/13 11:32am
Msg #454528

Borrower asked me a "Really-really-really hard question".

The borrower said, "I have a question to ask, but it's really, really-really-really hard". Of course I wanted to hear that, but I told him that I could not answer any legal questions. He said it was not a legal question, but a notary question. Okay - bring it on.

Question: "Can a notary notarize a document in a foreign language if the notary can't read it?"

I know the answer, and he said that the notary in Santa Barbara said it was illegal for her to do it because she did not understand the language in the document. I showed him the page in my handbook where it said it was okay. He photocopied the page of my handbook. He said he was afraid that he was going to have to drive his mother to Los Angeles to find a notary that can read Arabic. His mother speaks English and Arabic, so that was not a problem, but the document was in Arabic.

I hope YOU guys out there know the answer. It sounds like a question that ought to be on the renewal test, so we should all have that memorized. (When he said "Santa Barbara", I thought of Livescan101 here at NR, but I know Livescan101 is a LOT smarter than that, so it could not have been her.)

Reply by Clem/CA on 2/7/13 11:36am
Msg #454530

Could have been me too, But it was not.

Reply by CJ on 2/7/13 11:39am
Msg #454533

I just hope no one misses this question in the future.

And always have your handbooks with you to check, just in case.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 2/7/13 11:39am
Msg #454532

As long as the Notary Public and document signer can talk to and understand eachother, the document can be notarized.
This is California notary Law.

Reply by sueharke on 2/7/13 4:11pm
Msg #454589

I put the 2013 Notary Handbook into Dropbox so I may open it on my phone as needed. I also put a 2013 notary recission calendar in Dropbox to find the correct RTC date. This would work in Google drive or another cloud program.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 2/7/13 11:42am
Msg #454534

Page 18 of 2013 California notary Public Handbook:
Foreign Language
A notary public can notarize a signature on a document in a foreign language with which
the notary public is not familiar, since a notary public’s function only relates to the signature
and not the contents of the document. The notary public should be able to identify the type
of document being notarized for entry in the notary public’s journal. If unable to identify the
type of document, the notary public must make an entry to that effect in the journal (e.g., “a
document in a foreign language”). The notary public should be mindful of the completeness
of the document and must not notarize the signature on the document if the document appears
to be incomplete. The notary public is responsible for completing the acknowledgment or jurat
form. When notarizing a signature on a document, a notary public must be able to communicate
with the customer in order for the signer either to swear to or affirm the contents of the affidavit
or to acknowledge the execution of the document. An interpreter should not be used, as vital
information could be lost in the translation. If a notary public is unable to communicate with
a customer, the customer should be referred to a notary public who speaks the customer’s
language.

Reply by linda/ca on 2/8/13 12:01am
Msg #454698

Seems to me that "one" question is on all CA notary exams. n/m

Reply by Gregory/CA on 2/7/13 11:43am
Msg #454535

Yikes. It's a good thing he asked you the really hard

question for a second opinion. It's a shame that the first notary didn't know this answer. It seems the other notary needs to re-read the Handbook. Like you, I always carry it with me.

I had a GNW last month where the documents were in Chinese. He spoke English and Chinese. I asked him to identify the document for me. All fields were completed. He acknowledged the document and indicated he was signing of his own free will. Notarization complete. Journal notated accordingly.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 2/7/13 11:44am
Msg #454536

Page 18 - California 2013 Notary Public Handbook

Foreign Language
A notary public can notarize a signature on a document in a foreign language with which
the notary public is not familiar, since a notary public’s function only relates to the signature
and not the contents of the document. The notary public should be able to identify the type
of document being notarized for entry in the notary public’s journal. If unable to identify the
type of document, the notary public must make an entry to that effect in the journal (e.g., “a
document in a foreign language”). The notary public should be mindful of the completeness
of the document and must not notarize the signature on the document if the document appears
to be incomplete. The notary public is responsible for completing the acknowledgment or jurat
form. When notarizing a signature on a document, a notary public must be able to communicate
with the customer in order for the signer either to swear to or affirm the contents of the affidavit
or to acknowledge the execution of the document. An interpreter should not be used, as vital
information could be lost in the translation. If a notary public is unable to communicate with
a customer, the customer should be referred to a notary public who speaks the customer’s
language.

Reply by Shan/CA on 2/7/13 8:09pm
Msg #454653

Re: Yikes. It's a good thing he asked you the really hard

Same thing happened to me, except it was Vietnamese. My nail guy asked would I do some work for his sister, and I explained only if she could communicate with me. Things went great and I got some other GNW done from the family too!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/7/13 12:25pm
Msg #454544

Good grief... that's one of the BASICS of CA notary law.

The topic *was* covered on the exam I took last year. We're not allowed to really discuss the exact questions asked of course, but the topic about notarizing a document in a foreign language was most definitely covered on the one I took.

I hear stories quite often from people who are told they were turned away by other notaries for the dumbest of reasons. Documents in a foreign language is one of the most common.

I swear, our CA exam needs to be longer and require more than a 70% passing rate. It amazes me that people still manage to fail it given how many numb skulls manage to pass.

Reply by CH2inCA on 2/7/13 12:36pm
Msg #454545

I fear the Notary DID know the correct answer...

but didn't want to do it. It was a convenient excuse.

Which in itself would have also been against Notary law.

Reply by Malbrough_LA on 2/7/13 9:13pm
Msg #454680

Which in itself would have also been against Notary law. ?

You can't refuse to notarize something? I can refuse whatever tickles my fancy for whatever reason prickles it. I have not done so yet without a good reason though (fraud suspected, lack of a party being present, document formation, etc.).

Reply by Julie/MI on 2/7/13 12:42pm
Msg #454548

copywrite violation?

You said he photocopied a page from your handbook....is the handbook copywrited?

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/7/13 1:26pm
Msg #454555

Re: copywrite violation?

There can't really ever be a copyright on public information and government and civil codes, as well as government regulations and other information prepared by public agencies, etc. That would be like copyrighting the Delaration of Independence.

However, if the copied section in question was taken from a copyrighted how-to-be-a-notary manual prepared by a nonpublic person to be used exclusively in that person's business, then I supposed that could be a copyright violation .... but even that's a stretch.

Reply by CJ on 2/7/13 2:37pm
Msg #454562

Notary Handbook

I carry the one from the Secretary of State. I don't trust some other publication to tell me what it says. The book I carry is from 2009, so I recently printed one off the SoS website to study for my upcoming test.

I like to have the real thing in case a borrower says, "That's ridiculous! I'm not going to do that just because you say so!" No, you are going to do it because it's the law. (Things like: give me a thumbprint, or not use a Costco card for ID). Of course, if they don't do it, I am happy to leave early.

I am glad to know my picky friends here at NR would not make that mistake and they have their handbooks with them.

(And if you WOULD have make that mistake, you won't now.)

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/7/13 2:58pm
Msg #454567

Re: Notary Handbook

2009?? Ouch. It's good you have the new one though.

They publish a new one every year, and it's important to have the most up to date one on you all the time. They will send you one for free, too.

From the 2013 newsletter:

"The 2013 Notary Public Handbook will soon be available online and in hard copy at no charge. Request a copy of the 2013 Notary Public Handbook by sending a self addressed envelope (at least 6” by 9” in size) to the California Secretary of State, Notary Public & Special Filings Section,
P.O. Box 942877, Sacramento, CA 94277- 0001."

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/8/13 12:18am
Msg #454701

Re: Notary Handbook

It's also accessible online. Anyone with a smartphone can access the latest version directly from the SOS website in a pinch.

Reply by rengel/CA on 2/7/13 4:19pm
Msg #454597

Re: copywrite violation?

The SOS has a PDF of it online to be printed out, so I don't thnink copying a page or the whole book would be a problem.

My .02

Reply by Susan Lancaster on 2/7/13 4:42pm
Msg #454602

Re: copywrite violation?

Even works that are under copyright are still subject to limitations. The most well known is the Fair Use clause. I was the Copyright Admin at a firm that produced course material for the University of Florida so I dealt with this day in and day out for years.

In this instance, it boils down to a few key points: Copying one page out of an entire copyrighted book wouldn't be considered a significant portion of the material nor was the copy made for commercial purposes. Nor is it reasonable to consider that that one piddly copied page would impact the work's market value. So, no, this would not be considered copyright infringement.

If you're REALLY bored, you can read the entire law on the US copyright office website, http://www.copyright.gov

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/7/13 5:37pm
Msg #454610

Thanks, Susan! n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 2/7/13 7:02pm
Msg #454638

copyright - it is just bugging me to death. LOL n/m

Reply by Susan Lancaster on 2/7/13 7:14pm
Msg #454640

LOL - "copywritten" is even worse and oh-so common. n/m