Posted by Vicky58 on 2/25/13 12:45pm
Msg #457679

Esrcow Co. verses NSA procedures

I just returned home from going with my son to sign loan docs for his 1st home. When it came to the docs that needed to be notarized the girl had him sign and then put them to the side, then she had my son sign the journal once. I asked her if she was going to notarize the docs and didn't she need for him to sign in the journal for each doc to be notarized, she stated one signature was ok and she wasn't a notary that the escrow officer would fill in the notarization later. Am I doing everything wrong doing an entry for each doc that needs to be notarized and a thumb print? Also, a couple weeks ago my husband and I went to another Escrow Office and basically the same thing happened. The assistant had us sign papers and the journal once. I noticed in the journal ( don't know who it belonged to) but under the Identification section the Notary had just written PKM with an arrow pointing down the rest of the page and under type of Notarization she had "ACK" with arrow pointing down. This is CA and I was taught to do a separate entry for each Notarization. So, if this is acceptable for Escrow Co., why not NSA's.

Reply by JPH13/MO on 2/25/13 12:46pm
Msg #457680

OMG they are so wrong, especially for CA! n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/25/13 12:47pm
Msg #457681

"she wasn't a notary that the escrow officer would fill in the notarization later."

And what happened to "personal appearance" requirement.

Wow

Reply by jba/fl on 2/25/13 12:50pm
Msg #457682

Yeah - that's the part that got me. SMH n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 2/25/13 12:52pm
Msg #457683

Did you get a business card? I'm sure the SOS would be interested and you of course would be in-titled to a reward. The seriousness of all this is, IF anything goes wrong with the loan and cost your son money and you knew better......well as a notary, THAT wouldn't fly with me!

Reply by Vicky58 on 2/25/13 1:02pm
Msg #457684

I did question their procedures, but this was a short sale which had to be done today. The Escrow Officer did stop by the desk and ask me for my business card. I questioned the $200. notary fee and was told they would credit back $160. and only charge for the 4 notarizations.

Reply by Notarysigner on 2/25/13 1:05pm
Msg #457686

Sorry, I meant their Bus card and what noterization? n/m

Reply by Laura Biewer on 2/25/13 2:40pm
Msg #457701

The rules are the same regardless of the environment the signing takes place. A separate and complete entry for every notarial act for every signer for every document is the rule. Also, the Acknowledgment certificates must be filled out in front of the signer along with the journal process to be considered a completed notarization. The notary who fills out those acknowledgements after the fact has committed perjury due to the Penalty of Perjury Clause on the CA acknowledgment as there was no personal appearance in front of the notary. An NSA tried to pull off 1 signature in the journal and no certificate completion when I refi my own home. He did not get away with it. I refused to proceed unless he did the job correctly, in its entirety, in front of me. I then made notes of all the mistakes he made and before signing his journal shared them. He should have realized he was conducting a loan signing for an approved CA notary mandated training Instructor (NNA)! I would report the escrow company to SOS as this has to stop.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/25/13 3:22pm
Msg #457704

<<she stated she wasn't a notary that the escrow officer would fill in the notarization later.>>

Thsi is standard practice with every CA TC branch office I'm familiar with. A real-live notary may come in at first to ID the signer but then a flunkie conducts the loan signing. So to some that may meet the personal appearance requirement, but that's a stretch. Additionally, the notary journal is filled out pretty much as you described. Sometimes they just write "loan docs" and be done with it.

<<Am I doing everything wrong doing an entry for each doc that needs to be notarized and a thumb print? >>

No, you're not doing anything "wrong." But other notaries who require only one signature and t-print for a loan pkg aren't doing anything "wrong" either.

<<This is CA and I was taught to do a separate entry for each Notarization. So, if this is acceptable for Escrow Co., why not NSA's.>>

I do a separate entry for each notarizaton, too. But I don't collect a new sig and t-print for each one in the same loan pkg.

A big problem here is that the SOS "ruled" in its latest newsletter that notarizations must be completed in front of the signer. No more taking signed docs home to notarize later over a chilled glass of pinot ... or, in this case, no more having the docs completed at the end of the day by some escrow officer. And, in your case, who really knows who is completing the notarial certificates?? Hopefully by a commissioned notary but clearly not one who witnessed the signatures.

Anyway, the SOS knows this is standard behavior by TCs and has never taken any steps to end it .... so I wouldn't worry about it.

Reply by Notarysigner on 2/25/13 5:07pm
Msg #457743

SOS website, 2013 newsletter

One section of it reads...

Improper Notarial Acts
A notary public may be confronted by an unhappy customer after that customer
submits to the Secretary of State for signature authentication a document with an
improperly performed act. Documents submitted to the Secretary of State for
signature authentication cannot be processed if the notarial act was improperly
performed. The Secretary of State may seek to suspend or revoke the commission
of a notary public who has improperly performed notarial acts. Proper notarization
of a signature includes the completion of a notarial certificate, such as an
acknowledgment or jurat, by the notary public. A notary public may not stamp a
document with the official seal then sign, or sign and date the document without
completing or attaching a notarial certificate. A notary public may not stamp with the
official seal any pages other than the page with a completed notarial certificate.

Reply by Vicky58 on 2/25/13 5:18pm
Msg #457750

Yes, you are right that the Escrow Officer did stop by the desk and ask for his DL and then had a copy of it made.

Reply by desktopfull on 2/25/13 5:29pm
Msg #457757

So the laws of the state are disregarded if it is a

company completing the notarization? Talk about double standards! So much for signing in front of the notary, looks like any warm body will do, also why would anyone have access to a notary's journal, much less make entries in them, I know that also violates CA laws. How do you know that the notary is actually the person using her seal since they aren't notarizing the documents in front of the signer?

Those procedures leave closings up for any imaginable type of fraud and needs to be stopped.

Reply by ArtG/KS on 2/25/13 5:38pm
Msg #457759

Re: So the laws of the state are disregarded if it is a

Two thingks here. One, this would not be ok in Kansas either. Two, if no one reports this kind of activity, it will just continue until a rather large fly lands in the wrong ointment someday.

Reply by Notarysigner on 2/25/13 6:14pm
Msg #457764

Re: So the laws of the state are disregarded if it is a

If I had THAT person's name, the TC name and the borrower/seller name...that Notary would be fried.
Isn't it always strange how we can recognize wrong but do nothing about it if OUR family members are involved. no wonder why law enforcement has such a hard time solving crimes. IMO

Reply by jba/fl on 2/25/13 8:04pm
Msg #457804

The problem, as I understand it, is that one must be

the aggrieved party in order to lodge the complaint. Since that is none of us, what are we to do? We cannot, and I certainly don't want, to police the world or even just "the notary kingdom".

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/25/13 7:33pm
Msg #457800

So here's my question... if that girl was NOT a notary WHY was *SHE* touching the journal or having anyone sign it?

The notary journal is supposed to the in the "exclusive control" of the notary... it can't be passed around the office for desk jockeys to get signatures because the notary is too busy. That's why we have to keep them locked up and such.

If it were me, I'd get that notary's commission information and report them to the Sec of State right away. What you describe is not cool on so many different levels.